With Eve gone, only sub based MMOs left are FFXIV and WoW

[Kosmos992k]

what I mean by locked out is this:

I buy ARR for 60 bucks.

I can't play ARR unless I pay an additional 15 bucks every month. despite the fact that I purchased the game, for full price.

And? Your $60 includes 30 days of server time, plenty of time to complete the MSQ, and beat the game you paid for.

Bottom line, imo - if I buy your game, the act of me paying you money to buy your game, should give me access to the game, with no other strings attached.

That's exactly what you got, that 30 days let's you do just that, if you want them to continue to provide you with the service of their servers, time to subscribe. the game and the service are separate products.

If you want me to pay you MORE money, then you should to give me something worth purchasing.

Servers, patches, additional content without additional charges. Is that not enough? You didn't pay for 3.1-3.5 with your purchase of 3.0.

It should be "Thanks for spending 60 bucks on our game! If you pay us an additional 15 bucks a month, you'll get these additional benefits."

which is exactly what it is. The box tells you that you need a subscription to the FFXIV service, and that you get 30 days free with your initial purchase of the game. Paying that subscription let's you create multiple characters on multiple worlds and access all patch content not on the disc you're holding up as a trophy.

not "if you don't pay us 15 bucks a month, then we'll take away your access to the game and the 60 dollars you spent for it is now wasted."

They take away access to the servers, it's a multi-player online game, what did you expect them to do? It's not like they wipe your character, inventory or retainers, with the single exception of the personal housing which wipes after 45 days, everything you have is preserved until you re-sub. Storage costs money my friend. As does server and network infrastructure, maintenance, software bug fixing, additional content development and of course expansions.

I kinda don't understand how that doesn't make sense. and I will always beat that drum. I only like subscriptions if it is a CHOICE, and not a RANSOM.

Then you should probably not play this if you consider it ransom. The game is a product, the service is a product. You pay for the game you get to play it, you want to play for longer and have access to the latest fixes and content, you pay your sub. It's not a solo, offline game, you know this when you buy it. The box tells you you'll need a subscription.

Making games isn't cheap, maintaining servers and networks isn't a cheap exercise, and continually patching the game for bugs and new content is certainly not inexpensive - especially when it's done simultaneously with working on the next expansion. If you don't understand these things, then perhaps you're just not cut out for this.

[alimdia]

Servers, patches, additional content without additional charges. Is that not enough? You didn't pay for 3.1-3.5 with your purchase of 3.0.

Yes you do? Buying an expansion is buying everything in it, just that unlike WoW where you get nearly all content from the start, the devs stagger content so you don't run out of things to do.

If content updates weren't included in the price of expansion a player joining in 3.5 would have to pay an additional $45 per content update.

3.0, nor 2.0 by themselves have enough content to be considered a full $60 game.

[Kosmos992k]

Yes you do? Buying an expansion is buying everything in it, just that unlike WoW where you get nearly all content from the start, the devs stagger content so you don't run out of things to do.

If content updates weren't included in the price of expansion a player joining in 3.5 would have to pay an additional $15 per content update.

3.0, nor 2.0 by themselves have enough content to be considered a full $60 game.

No, both 2.0 and 3.0 contained a complete story, with the patches extending it and bridging the gap to the next expansion. Patches are included as part of the subscription. It's exactly like that in Business software. You buy the license up front and pay a substantial maintenance or service subscription. You get any new patches and updates to the application as part of that maintenance subscription, not the original purchase.

[alimdia]

No, both 2.0 and 3.0 contained a complete story, with the patches extending it and bridging the gap to the next expansion. Patches are included as part of the subscription. It's exactly like that in Business software. You buy the license up front and pay a substantial maintenance or service subscription. You get any new patches and updates to the application as part of that maintenance subscription, not the original purchase.

MMORPGs aren't a visual novel, there's more than story in a MMORPG, and you didn't address this

> If content updates weren't included in the price of expansion a player joining in 3.5 would have to pay an additional $45 per content update.

[Kosmos992k]

MMORPGs aren't a visual novel, there's more than story in a MMORPG, and you didn't address this

> If content updates weren't included in the price of expansion a player joining in 3.5 would have to pay an additional $45 per content update.

No, the content added in patches is considered part of the service offering. Yes it means that if you join at 3.5 having bought HW, you have access to everything from 3.0 through 3.5. that's a consequence of having a linear story and also needing to maintain the same client version with all players. The price of the HW game covers 3.0, the subscription grants access to the servers which includes all content upgrades. The content in the patches is not priced separately, nor rolled into the original purchase.

[alimdia]

No, the content added in patches is considered part of the service offering. Yes it means that if you join at 3.5 having bought HW, you have access to everything from 3.0 through 3.5. that's a consequence of having a linear story and also needing to maintain the same client version with all players. The price of the HW game covers 3.0, the subscription grants access to the servers which includes all content upgrades. The content in the patches is not priced separately, nor rolled into the original purchase.

Sorry but your logic doesn't seem right, you're saying that not subbing means you get free content if you play at the end of the expansion, you're also saying that FFXIV gets less content per expansion than any other MMO, I have to disagree with that. For me buying an expansion equals to paying for all content, while sub allows you to access the servers, hence why sub is time based and no content based, while the expansion is content based and not time based.

[Zojha]

For me buying an expansion equals to paying for all content, while sub allows you to access the servers, hence why sub is time based and no content based, while the expansion is content based and not time based.

Well...I would advise against drawing conclusion based on the pricing model. Consider - character slots and retainers are time based (monthly) costs as well, yet once you have created the characters/stored the items on the retainers, they have to be stored all the time regardless of whether you have access to them or not (as you might want them back at some point), so they take up just as many resources. This is a clear disconnect between the pricing model and the actual resource usage. Therefore, the same might apply to expansions and the patches. Might - or might not. It's not very clear cut either way.

[Dualgunner]

Yes you do? Buying an expansion is buying everything in it, just that unlike WoW where you get nearly all content from the start, the devs stagger content so you don't run out of things to do.

If content updates weren't included in the price of expansion a player joining in 3.5 would have to pay an additional $45 per content update.

3.0, nor 2.0 by themselves have enough content to be considered a full $60 game.

I would say that 3.0 and 2.0 have enough content to stand as a game on their own. It may be a matter of perspective but it took me ~30 hours to clear heavensward at the rate I normally clear an SRPG, similar with ARR.

Breaking it down to pure costs of the game, gonna admit an embarassing 200 days of gameplay total...roughly 4800 hours of gameplay?

I have paid for 990 days worth of gametime, so roughly 33 sets of one month (30 day) $15 payments. Leaving out two months because of the free months from HW and ARR, that's 31 payments of $15.

So ~$465 in payments over two ish years of playing. Add ~$90 ($30 cuz I got ARR on sale and $60 for HW) and that comes up to $555 on sub payments alone.

Sound like a lot?

Divide that by total hours played:

$550/4800 comes out to roughly...

$0.12/hour for entertainment. Which in my opinion is incredibly worth the experience I've received from the game. Not everyone will have the same hours or value of time that I have, and of course I've left out mogstation payments as those are on me entirely. But $0.12 an hour is really not that bad a price to eat.