Main Scenario Restriction Bloodstorm - Very Very Bad idea.

[Brian_]

I think some people might be beyond help but the MSQ does force players to learn the game. You are forced to do a lot of dungeons and trials as part of the MSQ.

So does someone skipping all of that have a potential effect on my enjoyment of the game? Yea, it does. I don't want to queue into max level content and get paired with someone who has no idea how to play the game. "Hello, it's my first time here" and "hello, this is my first dungeon ever" are very different things. Just pause for a second, go back to the beginning of 3.0, and imagine the immense frustration of having Dusk Vigil be someone's first dungeon ever. Imagine Ravana being someone's first trial ever. The player-quality floor for DF and PF on NA and EU servers is already hilariously low. Letting players leap straight into the end-game would drop it straight into the seventh hell.

New players are important. But, when your new players would rather skip your content than play it, that says something about the quality of player joining your game as well as the quality of your content. For an MMO, player progression should also be a bond you form with the world and your character. For someone that experiences the MSQ, they defeated Ifrit and Garuda. They are Titan's bane. They are a Scion. They are the friend of Haurchefant, Ysayle, Aymeric, etc. They are the Warrior of Light. For someone skipping everything, they are just a random max-level PC. When no bonds exist, they can leave the game just as easily as they joined it.

I've said in the past and I'll say it again. If they want to make the game more accessible then they need to condense and polish up the MSQ. There is a lot of completely unnecessary fat that can be trimmed down. Get rid of all the go-between NPCs that serve no other purpose than to make your journey a few steps longer and just get to the point quicker. Get rid of a lot of the fetch quest garbage nobody likes. Remove a lot of the unnecessary dialogue. Give players access to mounts or faster movement earlier on. Perhaps even cut out a redundant dungeon here and there -- the progression between Sastasha and Copperbell is not that large from a player development perspective.

[TarynH]

No. I've disagreed with them. There is a difference.

Then why do you keep saying I've given you no reason? I have to give you a reason for you to disagree with one.

Sigh. You are yet again mischaracterizing what I said.

Not at all. I responded to what you said.

Never said they did.

It was implied.

FFXI does not gate content behind its story. You are free to explore or participate in its equivalent of raids at your leisure.

Wrong. It absolutely does. Most end-game content was/is gated behind the story. Dynamis, Limbus, Sky, Sea were among the major end-game content gated behind the story. Certain other content was gated partially by story. Assaults, Nyzul, unlocking various jobs, Escha, etc.

Except I didn't. I merely applied your insistence players should play the game "as intended" to another game.

Playing a game as intended, has nothing to do with what you said. ME3 is intended (programmed) to be picked up without ME1 or ME2 being played. You can also use a save file from those games to personalize your ME3 game. However, it is intended to stand alone. FFXIV: ARR is intended (programmed) to be played starting at level 1 and proceeding into Heavensward, which is a continuation of the events from ARR. HW is not intended (programmed) to start the character off in Ishgard.

I think it is well-established that you want to skip ARR. I get that. However, when I say that I prefer people to play the game as intended, I mean it in the sense of play it how it's programmed. In other words, I didn't make the rules. Get over it. I'm not forcing anyone to play it any differently than anyone else. In fact, I'm not forcing anyone to play it at all. I simply have the opinion that it should retain it's integrity, and remain as is, possibly with less bloat, but definitely not skip story.

Based on... your opinion?

Based on many review sites that rate MMORPGs. FFXIV is usually right under your baby WoW, which also happens to have about 10 years on it.

Too bad. Why do you get to decide how they should feel or view this game or its expansions?

I don't. I said I fault anyone who views the expansions as stand-alone games. The same as I would fault anyone thinking one chapter out of a book is a stand-alone story.

And yet I could buy Legion right now and start playing it immediately.

Don't tease me.

Buying gil and skipping A Realm Reborn are not the same thing.

Wasn't my question.

No, you don't actually. Even in the Chinese version, you do not earn achievements.

The achievements don't bother me.

None of that is winning. Funny enough, I wager most people who would actually purchase a jump potion wouldn't even mind being forced to run all the dungeons/trials. That isn't what those people tend to complain about. It's the story they're forced to skip when it doesn't appealing to them.

I think they would. One of the major complaints is DF wait times. The story can be spammed through rather quickly. It's the dungeons that slow it down. The story is soloable for the most part, but the dungeons are not, unless you have someone willing to burn through them.

Because they aren't synonymous. Allowing someone to skip a bunch of fetch quests and joke dungeons they'll otherwise have a friend unsync them through doesn't impact anything.

Wait... I thought you said they wouldn't mind doing those dungeons.

Actually, it sounds like you're being increasingly judgmental because they chose to skip the story and you just want to shame them for it. No different than me calling out a healer for refusing to DPS, a tank who pulls small or a DPS who doesn't use their aoes. All of them are playing in a way I dislike, therefore I should get to shame them. Except in that scenario, I'd be a jerk.

Coming from the person becoming increasingly judgmental. What I said was in jest. I've never shamed, or called out someone in game, because I don't like their play style. If a healer doesn't DPS, I don't care. That's usually my job. I'm not that uptight, that I criticize a healer for wanting to heal. I don't secretly parse people, then tell them how worthless they are at the end of a run. (Had a nice person do that after my first A12 run, despite beating it the first attempt.)

You have this assumption that I'm some mean person, that forces people to play my way. All I'm asking is that everyone play the game from the same starting point. That's not really "my" way, but rather the "fair" way, for everyone.

[NatSilverguard]

if people would quit only because they needs to through MSQ, then let them go, they are not worth it.

i understand that SE is a business and they need to max those earnings but as a reputable company they need to have a vision for their product as well. if they decided that for FFXIV, story is more important then so be it. let this be a niche game.

they don't need to cater to all types of players and be a sell-out. loyal players will take care of them and i bet that there are newbros that will love FFXIV just the way it is, just like me.

i came from a game that has the toughest learning curve and notorious for ganking/scamming/spying. alot of people predicted it's doom, saying that if they won't change it will die, but contrary to that, after 13 yrs, it's still going strong.

so no, a gaming company sticking to their core and loyal to their fans will be tough to kill.

[Loony_BoB]

What I would not like: Them to change the continuing main storyline and how it is required to get into new areas.

What I would like: For them to remove a lot of the "fluff" quests from the main storyline and increase exp for the remaining quests. The removed quests can be turned into sidequests. This will allow for newer people to catch up faster without missing vital parts of the story, and they will feel like they are progressing much faster without missing out on things. They will still need to do all the dungeons, meaning they will still have a lot of time to learn all the moves they get, so it shouldn't be detrimental to gameplay 'education'.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Then why do you keep saying I've given you no reason? I have to give you a reason for you to disagree with one?

You cherry pick what better suits your argument or completely mischaracterize what I've said.

Wrong. It absolutely does. Most end-game content was/is gated behind the story. Dynamis, Limbus, Sky, Sea were among the major end-game content gated behind the story. Certain other content was gated partially by story. Assaults, Nyzul, unlocking various jobs, Escha, etc.

Not in the same manner FFXIV does. Regardless, FFXI is a fifteen year old game. Trends and audiences change.

Playing a game as intended, has nothing to do with what you said. ME3 is intended (programmed) to be picked up without ME1 or ME2 being played. You can also use a save file from those games to personalize your ME3 game. However, it is intended to stand alone. FFXIV: ARR is intended (programmed) to be played starting at level 1 and proceeding into Heavensward, which is a continuation of the events from ARR. HW is not intended (programmed) to start the character off in Ishgard.

That doesn't mean it can never be changed. If we're being entirely rigid on intention, the devs generally want you to play through the story. If you're skipping cutscenes, then you technically aren't "playing the game as intended." Personal interpretation is merely that: personal.

I think it is well-established that you want to skip ARR. I get that. However, when I say that I prefer people to play the game as intended, I mean it in the sense of play it how it's programmed. In other words, I didn't make the rules. Get over it. I'm not forcing anyone to play it any differently than anyone else. In fact, I'm not forcing anyone to play it at all. I simply have the opinion that it should retain it's integrity, and remain as is, possibly with less bloat, but definitely not skip story.

Only if you failed to read my posts. I specifically cited having read and watch every cutscene. In fact, I've done so twice. I also wouldn't have any interest purchasing a jump potion. Because I support the idea, doesn't inherently mean I dislike the story. That is you once again making presumptions.

And I have the opinion the "integrity of the game" is ascribing a personal attachment to something nebulous. Evidently, we disagree. So as you so eloquently put, get over it.

Based on many review sites that rate MMORPGs. FFXIV is usually right under your baby WoW, which also happens to have about 10 years on it.

There you go making assumptions again. I've never played WoW. I only cited it because it directly refutes your argument of RMT madness and proved their jump potion equivalent wound up being successful. God forbid I don't agree FFXIV should be played in such and such a way. Obviously, I must be a WoW player who hates the story.

I don't. I said I fault anyone who views the expansions as stand-alone games. The same as I would fault anyone thinking one chapter out of a book is a stand-alone story.

Good for you. Unfortunately, your opinion isn't the end all, be all.

Don't tease me.

Oh no. Somebody disagrees with me on the Internet. They should just go away.

Wasn't my question.

Just another false equivalent. You do those a lot.

The achievements don't bother me.

That wasn't my point.

I think they would. One of the major complaints is DF wait times. The story can be spammed through rather quickly. It's the dungeons that slow it down. The story is soloable for the most part, but the dungeons are not, unless you have someone willing to burn through them.

What concern of it is yours? For them, spamming hundreds of quests is still tedious.

Wait... I thought you said they wouldn't mind doing those dungeons.

Had nothing to do with what I said, again. You continuously try to equate wanting to skip to the beginning of Heavenward with being gifted Best in Slot gear. They aren't the same thing.

Coming from the person becoming increasingly judgmental. What I said was in jest. I've never shamed, or called out someone in game, because I don't like their play style. If a healer doesn't DPS, I don't care. That's usually my job. I'm not that uptight, that I criticize a healer for wanting to heal. I don't secretly parse people, then tell them how worthless they are at the end of a run. (Had a nice person do that after my first A12 run, despite beating it the first attempt.)

Because I disagreed with you? Heaven help us all. Apparently, my supporting, or simply not caring one way or another because a jump potion is somehow judgmental. Is it because I don't feel the same way you do about the game's "integrity." I'm not the one who advocated shaming people who opted to purchase something because I didn't like it. How convenient that's only a "joke" now though.

You have this assumption that I'm some mean person, that forces people to play my way. All I'm asking is that everyone play the game from the same starting point. That's not really "my" way, but rather the "fair" way, for everyone.

No. Frankly, I don't have any opinion of you. We merely disagreed on a forum. Don't think much else of it. And that "fair" way remains, your subjective, opinion.

[Reynhart]

FFXI does not gate content behind its story.

Not true for most zones in CoP, nor Dynamis, nor Dreamworld, nor Sky, nor Sea, nor Salvage, nor Limbus...so, lots of raids, in fact.

New players are important. But, when your new players would rather skip your content than play it, that says something about the quality of player joining your game as well as the quality of your content.

The fun part is that those who claim that gating is a problem are not new players. The only complain I saw from new players is having to level a job to 50 (or even 60) to even unlock the one job they want to play. And that is a valid concern. Especially since, like in HW, jobs have acually very little connection to the city you unlock them.
They could have put AST, DRK and MCH out of Ishgard without any real issue.

[Neophyte]

Lets do some stats. I leveled my Alt last week from 0-60 with cutscene skipping in 5 ingame days. Thats up to 3.4 and a12 down. I still have the leaf. Huge help was NN and friends doing unsync content to skip throughduties.So fir the love of god thats 150 hrs. In the end if you dont enjoy the journey why play the game. The fact there are solo duties in MSQ that serve as a wake up call that you need to get better yourself its a huge win for me. I will agree 2.X-2.55 needs some fat trimming and MSQ up to lvl50 need some exp boosts. The 46-49 leveling was a pain in the ass and i had to stop doing MSQ to level. I hit though HW being lvl52. And only had to grind exp at 58 and 59.

That is with skipping every cutscene, knowing every little aspect of the game, friends who help you clear the dungeons faster (or get faster queues if not tank).
It's not like most people start with a lot of friends into this game.

My alternate (WAR) is right before Brayflox Longstop @ about 20h playtime.
Make this 60h+ for my actual first character (ARC) to reach that point (maybe alone 10h for not using the right shortcuts to reach Lower La Noscea or the scion hideout next to Horizon, lol).

__________

But, way more important: Player skill doesn't correlate with time spent in MSQ, it correlates with time spent in end level content and dedication.
So saying player skill will drop (lol, as if the skill of the majority can even drop further) is pretty far-fetched.
I know people who only joined to play with friends in end-game and they got carried through all the MSQ. Did they learn that much, while getting carried? No.
They're still not worse than many others who did the MSQ on their own and currently they're even doing savage. So, maybe that problem is just made up and is not backed up by any proof? Just sayin'..

And even... maybe they fuck up in their first level 60 dungeon?! So what. People fuck them up right now, too. And they did all the MSQ!!! How come...?
Simple: It's not like you need 100h of training to just get how this game works. And it's not like 100h of playing a below lvl. 50 class helps you much on endgame rotation or in-depth understanding of your skills and synergy effects with other classes.
To be on par with a no-Ex/Savage-content doing player in regards of "what does that mark mean (e.g. stack, avoid, etc.)" or "What should I do here?" you need a few hours in ex dungeons, else you're just not that good, are not paying attention or you simply don't care. And playing all the MSQ would'nt help you.

How often in actual current content do people think: "Wow, that person is bad. I wonder if he played enough MSQ to get good? Or maybe someone did carry him trough 2.x and that's why he's so bad."
Never. Because it's absolutly far-fetched to connect lack of player skill with him not doing enough hours of level-up and fetch quests. Or because he did Brayflox/Stone Virgil not a single time, instead of a friggin' single time (since right now, besides clearing a dungeon once, it's not needed to do it more often).

________

The MSQ of the base game is one thing. But there is and never will be any succesful MMORPG which demands you to play every published X-Pac (in the right order) to enjoy the newest X-Pac.

Never.

Ever.

[TarynH]

Regardless, FFXI is a fifteen year old game. Trends and audiences change. I've never played WoW. I only cited it because it directly refutes your argument of RMT madness and proved their jump potion equivalent wound up being successful.

Since I'm already making assumptions, I'm going to assume you never played FFXI. Because you seem to know very little about it.

I'm also going to assume you never read any of the WoW forums complaining how toxic the community has become since the addition of jumping potions.

Also, I'm going to assume that you know very little about WoW's RMT situation, and how for years they could not get rid of them. Still can't. But it's all okay now, because you can buy gold directly from Blizzard, in the form of a token. Right off of their cash shop. They made RMT legal, to compete with them.

Apparently, my supporting, or simply not caring one way or another because a jump potion is somehow judgmental.

Actually, I would base that on your interaction with others. Not on the fact you want the jumping potion. But there I go again, making assumptions that your harmful rhetoric and spite towards others is somehow judgmental. Maybe I should instead assume that's just you being friendly?

But if you really don't care about all of this... why are you defending your position so vehemently?

And before you ask the same of me, I'll say I actually care about the game I play. I've heard "the game is dying" bs from the start of FFXI: CoP. Still alive. Maybe not kickin', but definitely still around. It's going to be very hard to convince me so early in, that FFXIV is going down your arbitrary "road to doom."

But I digress. I'm tired. I'm bored of the discussion, as it's circling around into the same tired "what do you care?" nonsense. If it will make you feel better, I'll even say you win.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Since I'm already making assumptions, I'm going to assume you never played FFXI. Because you seem to know very little about it.

I'm also going to assume you never read any of the WoW forums complaining how toxic the community has become since the addition of jumping potions.

Also, I'm going to assume that you know very little about WoW's RMT situation, and how for years they could not get rid of them. Still can't. But it's all okay now, because you can buy gold directly from Blizzard, in the form of a token. Right off of their cash shop. They made RMT legal, to compete with them.

I did play it, albeit not for long. Didn't particularly like it, though not for story reasons.

WoW has several million players. By simple statistics, they will have a much larger "toxic" portion of their community. People have complained about that long before a jump potion were added.

Actually, I know a WoW GM personally. No MMO will ever get rid of RMTs because of how they operate. They ban a handful and new bots are made. A game with WoW's population and popularity will inevitably attract more.

Actually, I would base that on your interaction with others. Not on the fact you want the jumping potion. But there I go again, making assumptions that your harmful rhetoric and spite towards others is somehow judgmental. Maybe I should instead assume that's just you being friendly?

But if you really don't care about all of this... why are you defending your position so vehemently?

And before you ask the same of me, I'll say I actually care about the game I play. I've heard "the game is dying" bs from the start of FFXI: CoP. Still alive. Maybe not kickin', but definitely still around. It's going to be very hard to convince me so early in, that FFXIV is going down your arbitrary "road to doom."

But I digress. I'm tired. I'm bored of the discussion, as it's circling around into the same tired "what do you care?" nonsense. If it will make you feel better, I'll even say you win.

My interactions have been to disagree with you and call old content irrelevant. You apparently took umbrage to it. If you deem words on a forum where I, at no point, uttered so much as curse word to any one person, "harmful". Well, perhaps Tumblr can relate. Disagreeing with someone is not spiteful or malicious.

Because it's a forum and I'll reply to whomever responses if I feel like it? I'm simply arguing the other side. And I never once said FFXIV was dying nor did I even imply it. I said if content is continuously gated by an ever growing quest requirement. It will deter new players. You're inferring what hasn't been said.

Do whatever you fancy. It doesn't matter to me.

[Nestama]

Not true for most zones in CoP, nor Dynamis, nor Dreamworld, nor Sky, nor Sea, nor Salvage, nor Limbus...so, lots of raids, in fact.

Did you need to beat the Shadowlord to gain access to Sea, Salvage, Walk of Echoes, Abyssea (lol) and Delve, though?

Just imagine it, we're on our fifth expansion... and the only way to access it is by beating ARR, HW, SB, 3rd and 4th. It's really silly to think about, yeah?