Quote Originally Posted by KitingGenbu View Post
Retainers aren't p2w?

Someone brought up an argument on specializations and how people could just use jump potions to have more toons with them. But can't you just level all 8 of your retainers and send them on ventures to have more chances of getting stuff than someone else? Honestly, this point holds weight at the very start of an expansion when things are at their highest. Yet, you'll see a whole bunch of posts pertaining to how retainers aren't p2w and you have to level each one and gear etc etc. Fact remains, its a method that people can buy which increases advancement over others in some form, which I'm pretty sure what most people consider to be p2w.
They've handled the retainer system with rather fair balance. In that the retainers cannot get you everything in the game. For the entirety of 2.0-2.55 they could not gather items from unspoiled nodes. These were later added after or during 3.0's launch. They currently cannot bring you the highest items (folklore, etc.) from HW. And a single retainer cannot bring back more than what the actual player could. In fact, it is sometimes more productive to gather the majority of the items yourself. I'm sure most people could bring back more than 20-30 iron ores in an hour.

I wouldn't necessarily call it paying to "win" as they don't "advance" the player in any certain terms. They can provide you with easily gathered materials, but it's still on the player to advance their character. They are more of a convenience. And like you said, you have to gather whatever they gather first, in order for them to unlock it. You also have to level them, and gear them. So they can't exceed what your own personal character can do yourself. The player is literally investing the time to make the retainers advantageous, not the other way around. The only thing I will admit they can advance, is your pocketbook. But then, I've seen it mentioned countless times that gil doesn't matter in this game. :P

I consider pay-to-win as something that advances your character past/thru content. Paying to level a character to 50 or 60. Paying to jump past story/dungeon content. Paying for gear that increases ilvl. Retainers cannot advance you in this way. They can only bring you things you have already succeeded in obtaining yourself.