What job was she?

[Cilia]

I'm well aware that Red Mages are competent melee fighters on top of being able to cast both white and black magic. I had one in my FFI party.

The problem is that in modern MMOs roles are highly specialized. They always were in pen and paper RPGs, but video games took a different route since until MMOs they couldn't be reliably channeled except through things like Cover or Job systems. In VII, for instance, everyone has an implicit Job (Cloud is a Fighter, Tifa is a Monk, Aerith is a White Mage, etc.) but you can build them however you like. There's always an optimal setup, but in single-player games that doesn't matter too much. In MMOs, on the other hand...

People will generally gravitate towards the Jobs that are most powerful / efficient. A "jack of all trades" Job like Red Mage trades efficiency for versatility: yes, they can use Black Magic, but not as well as a Black Mage. Yes, they can use White Magic, but not as well as a White Mage. Yes, they can use melee weapons, but not as well as a Warrior.

The conundrum comes from the fact that Red Mages have to be able to do all of those things: melee damage, spell damage, and healing all at once without outshining their specialized counterparts, but well enough to the point that people still want to play the Job. Remember, efficiency is the price you pay for versatility, so... how do you keep Red Mage's identity intact without making it woefully underpowered to the point nobody wants to play it or so blatantly overpowered nobody wants to play anything but it except for tanks?

It's not an easy question to answer. I have faith they will one day implement Red Mage, but in what shape or form I could not say.

... and I really don't need the lecture.

[Brannigan]

Honestly if a couple of paladin's skills had "black magic" flavor on them (Shield Lob, Flash, Cirlce of Scorn maybe) then their skillset would be close to red mage.

White magic can be covered by a couple of utility and restricted healing (cooldowns, high mp cost, etc) spells. Black magic and melee attacking are easy to cover as well. I see no reason why they'd have any trouble implementing Red Mage in a DPS or tank role. Just because a job can do a lot of different things doesn't mean it has to be a generalist. BLM has some nice defensive cooldowns and utility abilities but it isn't a tank.

[SpiritMuse]

I wonder if it would be interesting to give the Red Mage caster and melee stances, sort of like ast's sects. Like in melee stance your spells and other attacks are instant but only have melee range, and in caster stance they would have increased range (and probably power to offset the absence of auto attacks) but have cast times. Maybe add some other effects that change depending on stance to truly differentiate them. Then give them some raid utility spells (maybe something like enfire to increase party damage for a while) and a heal on cooldown and you've a pretty versatile job.

[LilLemay]

Summoner can raise being a dps, Red Mage having some single target healing could be done in a way it could be useful in emergency situations but obviously not on the level of a healer.

I mean, they did give paladin clemency, I don't see why something similar to this couldn't be done for RDM

[Cilia]

Every class has some emergency self-healing to make solo play (and to a lesser extent PvP) more feasible.

PLD has healing from CNJ and Clemency.
WAR has Bloodbath, Inner Beast, and Equilibrium.
DRK has Souleater, Dark Arts Abyssal Drain, and Sole Survivor.
MNK has Second Wind.
DRG has Life Surge.
BRD has access to Second Wind.
BLM has access to ACN healing.
SMN has access to ACN healing and resurrection. (It does branch off from ACN, y'know...)

Most every class already has access to spot heals, albeit not as powerful as a proper healer and/or self-only.

The core of RDM's identity is its ability to do anything - physical damage, magic damage, and healing - just not as well as the specialized classes. It makes them very useful in the early game, but that usefulness wanes as it goes on and the specialized classes eventually eclipse Red Mages / Red Wizards to the point having something else is often preferable. (I personally used my Red Wizard as little more than an item mule at the end of my first, last, and only run of I, and switch out of it by the time I get the Fire Crystal jobs in III because it's already lagging behind.)

How do you keep that identity intact without making it so underpowered nobody wants to play it to compensate for that versatility (which is exactly what happened with AST on 3.0 launch), but without giving it so much functionality thanks to that versatility that it's more useful than the other classes?

... I can think of ways to make it interesting (melee attacks at point blank only, healing spells at midrange only, damage spells at long range only), but not a way to resolve that.

[Moomba33]

BRD only had access to CNJ abilities in 1.0
In ARR/Heavensward it crosses with PGL and has access to Second Wind.

Arcanist's Resurrection cannot be cross classed. Black Mage can use Physick from it though.

[Jonnycbad]

The core of RDM's identity is its ability to do anything - physical damage, magic damage, and healing - just not as well as the specialized classes.

If SAM is going to be a melee DPS (shares maiming armor with DRG), it's quite likely RDM will be a tank. Remember, the one role that can Heal/DPS without swapping stances is TANK. PLD has DPS and Clemency, WAR has DPS and Inner Beast/Equilibrium, DRK has DPS and Souleater. A RDM could easily be a tank and have Cura/Draining Slash as their Clemency/Souleater.

[WhiteArchmage]

Why are we talking about how RDM would perform mechanics wise in the Lore Forum instead of Other Battle Classes, DPS Roles or *shudder* General Discussion? If SE wants to make it work, they'll make it work and if it's not balanced for end-game, they'll eventually buff it or patch it and THEN we'll complain that RDM is OP.

What we should care about is if it'll fit the Lore and it may as well do. We don't know for sure but it could, but since everything is aether and conjurer and arcanist can already use magic to heal and attack, we just need an npc to add swordplay to it and there's the Red Mage. It's not our job to say "they can't do it because mechanics", it IS, however, to say "they could/couldn't theoreticaly do it since Gelmorrans/Mhachi/Allagans/an-area-in-the-x-pac-we-don't-know-about-yet"

[AutumnHarvestwind]

I feel like they would do things more along the lines of Spell-Enhancements rather than just taking from WHM/BLM skills. My idea is that they work with WHM/BLM in a way like:
Enthunder
Enfira
Enwatera
...
etc.
Except rdms wouldn't get affected by how whms only use water, earth and wind spells, and blackmages elemental limitations, RDM would have the full range of elements to work with when doing their job mechanics--whether they be tank or dps.

alisaie's blade of light was the gathering of what I am assuming is unaspected aether since we kind of power-bombed it, but maybe in lesser doses we can attune it to different elements, each where they have a different buff and debuff they can give to the party ...and stuff. lol

RDM would be a cool off-tank/dps tbh but like the others said before, mmos are pretty set in stone with job dynamics. ( and perhaps it will be the first job to have haste as a spell...but that sounds OP lol)

[Cilia]

Why are we talking about how RDM would perform mechanics wise in the Lore Forum instead of Other Battle Classes, DPS Roles or *shudder* General Discussion? If SE wants to make it work, they'll make it work and if it's not balanced for end-game, they'll eventually buff it or patch it and THEN we'll complain that RDM is OP.

Personally I think it's because they need to know how it'll be balanced in gameplay before implementing it; perhaps I'm putting the horse before the cart, but they can make up whatever lore they want to justify its addition, i.e.

"Red Mages are the product Sharlayan rogues adapting their magical abilities to suit any situation. With spellblade in hand, they wade into the thick of battle unlike their counterparts, wielding both destructive and restorative magicks to draw their enemies' attention. Using those same magicks to reinforce their bodies, Red Mages prepare contingency plans for all eventualities and control the flow of battle."

... if they added it as a tank class as suggested above. That would get a lot of fuss from people, though, because it wouldn't be RDM's traditional "jack of all trades" flavor; it would be trading a good chunk of its damage output in favor of increased survivability. (Tanks don't have the best damage capabilities, Deliverance WARs aside. Have I told you about my lord and savior Fell Cleave?)

Granted, I do think they'll be adding it. In 4.0 even, if the hints in the Rising last year, Alisae's commentary when spoken to right now, and the way she fought alongside us are any indication. I just don't know what role it'll play because it's the definitive "jack of all trades, master of none" Job in a game designed around the MMO paradigm of the iconic "tank, healer, DPS" specialized roles. Making it the "jack of all trades, master of none" will make it underpowered and nobody will want to play it, while defying that in favor of making it fit one of the three iconic roles will cause people to flip out about how it's not a traditional RDM (or: DRK is now a tank, drains MP for Darkside instead of HP).

I'm excited to see what they do with Red Mage. The fuss it's likely to raise over not fitting its traditional mold and/or being OP or too nerfed... not so much.

(Still sticking with my current class. Edgelord 4 lyfe!)