The Griffin

[Rocl]

The Griffin/Masks have not been around that long. They are a relatively new upstart faction of the Ala Mhigan Resistance which, yes, has existed since before 1.0 proper. However given the general disorganization and disarray the Resistance is known for, it's not unusual for new "waves" of the Resistance to rise up and get squashed quickly. There was a band of relative Ala Mhigan Resistance go-getters in 1.0 who tried to move against the Empire only to be ruthlessly killed by the viceroy of Ala Mhigo himself.

So, basically, no--the Griffin hasn't been around for the past twenty years. Trying to pinpoint a date for the passing of time in MMOs is tricky, but I'd say six months is probably a high end estimate from the freeing of Raubahn and the death of Nidhogg. No, I don't know how he was able to get that good at fighting one-armed so quickly either. Maybe he had a lot of practice fighting with an arm tied behind his back in the Bloodsands.

[Morningstar1337]

Ilberds last stand in the story is in the beginning of 3.0 around level 51 MSQ, i asume this is like 6-10 month in the past...he could be it, but then Ilberd wouldn't be his true name for reasons.

I thought t was around 55...nvm it oes seem to be 51

[Anonymoose]

halfway through the cutscene I realized that the body style didn't match (we all know our Griffin chap is a Highlander while Gaius is a Hume).

You're right - Gaius is no Highlander, to be sure. Technically, though (like most Garleans), he has a modified Elezen skeleton. Even the two Nael deus Darnus models still have modified Elezen male bases; one just has a feminine head modded on.

But yes. One way or another, we're meant to think (or know) a very specific someone is under the True Griffin's robes.

If I may be so blunt, the whole Gaius idea has felt like wishful thinking from the first...

Well ... yeah. No denials from this guy, lol. I won't embrace or defend it as "my expectation". I just took some weird hints (in all likelihood red herrings, or hints I took wrong) and had some fun stirring the pot. That's all there is to it. (You know, unlessssss...)

The rest of the Masks don't look particularly well-equipped. The Griffin and his proxies do have some snazzy threads, but Ilberd was working for Lolorito - the wealthiest man in Eorzea - for some time. While certainly not loaded, he never seemed to be in want for coin (in fact Raubahn specifically called him out on betraying everyone for the Monetarists' coin), and with that getting some special clothes and rudimentary armaments for the Masks is far from implausible.

how the devil would a renegade Garlean legatus get the funds to supply the Masks in Eorzea of all places?

I feel like one point counters the other (assuming cutaway-mid-explosion means didn't-die-in-said-explosion). Baelsar spent decades in the Imperial court, at the side of the Emperor, while managing a legion of the Empire's military. Meanwhile, he also spent nigh twenty years as viceroy governing an entire Imperial province, and a decent chunk of that time he was in the Emperor's good graces (having slain nine of his would-be usurpers and all).

At least until 1562, whatever he needed, he got - down to the Imperial Armada's flagship. After he lost it, ehhh... But he was still governing a pretty massive territory. He doesn't strike you as the kind of guy to have reserve funds? Skimming a bit off the top for a crisis, maybe? Also, he still has a good chunk of tech to sell. He still has a good chunk of secrets to sell. And his men were loyal as they come; I'd bet that some of his network remains intact and/or could be rebuilt.

The guy managed to find enough money to fund a rogue legion's war ... for like five years. Would he really have trouble scrounging up enough gil for, as you say, some special clothes and rudimentary armaments?

I can't think of a reason as to why Gaius would try to liberate Ala Mhigo.

Abandon the mindset of a Final Fantasy XIV player or a plot analyst.

Be, for a moment, Gaius van Baelsar, <puffs chest> Legatus of the XIVth Imperial Legion. True son of Garlemald. (It'll be fun, maybe!)

cracks knuckles; prepares manifesto

You dedicate your life to an Emperor in whose cause and right to rule you believe in without question. After decades of success, in the twilight of his life, on a mission to to raise Garlemald's mighty standard over the last of the Three Great Continents, you fail. Not entirely your fault. How do you foresee a surprise ambush by the mythical progenitor of all dragonkind? Still, you fail. Spectacularly. The outcome of your mission is the exact scenario you set out to prevent; primals. False gods, corrosive to the very foundations of this world. Eorzea is corrupted to its core. Only through the stability and order of the Empire can this rot be excised and the realm returned from the brink.

However, unable to counter the unvanquishable demigods, undoing this failure is a futile effort for ten years. You even offer the Eorzeans amnesty; accept Garlean rule, take up arms against the beast tribes, and every life will be spared. But they will not accept the truth, will not realize what is at stake, will not bend.

You lose the Emperor's confidence; and who gains it? Legatus Nael van Darnus, upjumped upon his father's death - probably by his hand, at that - and proffering a depraved scheme to reduce Eorzea to ash and call it salvation. You've heard rumors of this plan ... the brainchild of House Darnus and Midas nan Garlond, so consumed by it that his prodigy son was left wanting for guidance that you were all too happy to provide. (That is, until the fruits of the Meteor Project destroyed a city and the use of his magitek against the Ala Mhigan insurrection drove the coward to defect.) And you are made to serve, made to bow, to this. For now, the humiliation must be borne; it is the Emperor's will.

As fate would have it, your every suspicion is validated. The lunatic deceives the Emperor - something is ...off... about this plan. Knowing His Radiance won't realize the truth before it's too late, you feed Darnus to the Eorzean Alliance (Honor and pleasure need not be mutually exclusive.) and leave their fate in their own hands. Should they be strong enough to survive, they will yet be conquered justly by those worthy to lead them. Garlemald's standard will raise in every corner of the realm, and its taint will be purged. Most will learn to accept what is in their best interest, the rest will perish with their false beliefs.

You return to Ala Mhigo and prepare your invasion - to strike while the iron is hot - before the realm can recover from the Calamity and before the tribes can reorganize, resupply, and resummon. But the Emperor falls ill. The heir apparent dies (murder?) and those in line for the throne (murderers?) tear at what His Radiance has built like vultures. You have no time. Desperation. And then a visit from man in black, offering power should you only use it. Perhaps you've heard of the Bringers of Chaos, perhaps not; but you can use this power now and fail to serve their ambitions later. For now, your goals are aligned.

With Cid gone, you've adopted more of the lost - Nero, Rhitahtyn, Livia - and when they saw what you could provide they were eager to prove their worth. Eorzea fails to organize; Castrums rise in every region before resistance is mounted. And in the end, who is it that comes to head off your momentum but the slayer of van Darnus (or whoever it is the meddling Sharlayans are backing these days). Just as you move to finally vanquish this worthy foe, you experience the epiphany. The true war is revealed. The power of the Crystal and the Darkness that would extinguish it. Your ambitions aren't even on this game board. You've been a pawn. Explosions.

[INSERT DEUS EX ALCES HERE]

What remains in possession of the defeated Black Wolf? Not even breath according to most. Where once there was honor - pride - purpose - there is naught. Do you, Gaius van Baelsar, Legatus of the XIVth Legion, true son of Garlemald, accept this defeat? Do you accept the state of your Empire? Do accept the sight of your homeland, for which you gave everything, for which you died, led to its ruin? The sight of this would-be Emperor, eagerly grasping for the power to enslave primals - to make use what aught be destroyed. To welcome what you sought to see the world rid of. Are - you - finished?

No. This will not be suffered. Honor. Pride. Purpose. Garlemald's true path. They can all be reclaimed.

But every journey starts with but a single step. With whom do you take it? With whom you have left to trust. In what direction does it go? Towards what you know. Towards what knows you. Do you consent to relinquish stewardship of the Ala Mhigo - which you led, which you gave order for two decades - whose children were raised up under your leadership and cast down in the fires of Cartenau despite your futile protest? This new viceroy - installed by this would-be Emperor - does not have their best interests at heart. It can be reclaimed.

How? For all the times you crushed them utterly, did the Ala Mhigan Resistance ever give up hope? Ever stop plotting? Ever cease to be a thorn in your side? But they lack discipline. They lack order. They lack passion. They lack the guidance of a man willing to do anything that his task demands. Luckily, such a man - such a loyal son of Ala Mhigo - is just as desperate as you. Another cast-down, cast-off, and night-forgotten enemy from the ceaseless crusade of the Warrior of Light. He wants only for guidance. With your sage council, he can forge the undying spirit of the Resistance into something more useful.

But they will need power. Ultima may be gone, yet through the Monetarists' former confidant you learn of something much like it buried deep beneath Cartenau. Nero will be reluctant to lay claim to it... at first.

And what to do about the man in white. He claims to be different than his black-robed brethren. Brethren. He cannot be trusted. But at arms length he can be used. While his own pawns fight and die and are cast aside, those who accept your guidance reap rewards and success the likes of which they had never dreamed. And what if your Griffin becomes too ambitious? The Warrior of Light will surely not be far behind, and with scores to settle, you hear. Feed him to those he betrayed. The man in white can deal with them them after.

An entire generation of Ala Mhigans have known the benefit of your order. The rest would see the Empire pay. Who among them do you have nothing to offer? Do you not have the power to unite them if only they embrace reason? You told your Empire of it's folly and it did not listen. It would repeat its mistakes. It would build upon them. Will Ala Mhigo be a part to it? This nation can again know pride ... know honor ... know purpose.

But this is just ... one ... step.

Gaius would have to go down, but he'd go down as the antagonist he was meant to be; standing tall on his own feet, carrying out his own plans, and doing what was best for the Empire-as-he-saw-it. Perhaps you share an enemy for a time. Perhaps he dies (again) before you can be brought into direct opposition (again).

Wrong? Probably. Wishful thinking? Undeniably. But inconsistent? Ehhh.

Can't blame a guy for channeling his boredom while he waits for 4.0. Ain't like that void thing is going anywhere fast. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Cilia]

I thought we were past the days of requiring severed heads to prove kills, but as long as people are admitting it's just wishful thinking...

[Morningstar1337]

I thought we were past the days of requiring severed heads to prove kills, but as long as people are admitting it's just wishful thinking...

You know if they Never Found the Body then the deceased cannot be ruled out as having really died, Even Nanamo applies to this considering that some decay would had set in if she was dead when Raubahn found her (and that its impossible to meet her outside quests and cutscenes anyway). So I'm not surprised, we are conditioned to believe that in fiction, a severed head is only of the few ways to tell that someone is dead.

With that said, even if Gaius were alive I doubt he wouldbe in any position to help organize a rebellion. His one still living follower is seemingly on his own path with the other 2 dead, his assets would had likely been seized by the new Viceroy and as an elderly man devoid of both aether and Thancred's skills that allow him to work around that I don't think he'd capable of stealing the robe and hat which he needs because he'd still have to hide his eye and his legatus' armor is a dead giveaway. And it seems likely that Varis and the Viceroy would had taken control of the Castrums in Eorzea (Westwind, Meridiandum, Oriens and especialy the one in Mor Dhona, with the lone exception being the Praetorium which was destroyed)

Elidibus might had painted himself as trustworthy, and who knows maybe he might have gave him the eyes as a way to say "We're not gonna free Lahabrea, you have no reason to fear me." but I'd find it unlikely. After all Gaius had his chance to start a calamity and he blew it. The Ascians are more likely to bet on someone, younger, with more resources, possibly resources siphoned off their foes. As well as a reason to cause chaos. And right now that man is Illberd.

(Couse it would be fun for an Ace Attorney style mock trial to debate the identity of the Griffin)

[Cilia]

Severed head on pike or body tied to bumper of manacutter, otherwise not certainly dead. That's kind of brutal and unheroic, but if you say so...

Let's wait for Livia's return! And Solus! And Xande! And someone to summon the Knights of the Round so they can antagonize us again!

[PArcher]

Even today, in the real world, proof of death is still needed. It may be barbaric, but just because someone has been missing for years, or is presumed dead does not mean they are.

[Cilia]

The point of "escape or die" situations is to avoid that kind of thing. That way our heroic image is preserved (we aren't even indirectly responsible for van Baelsar's death) but the villain is still vanquished, never to menace the world again.

Would you really argue that Henry Ducard / Ra's al Ghul could have survived at the end of Batman Begins? After the out-of-control train he was riding on crashed into a building? It's a very similar scenario.

Or could it just be that people are grasping at straws and trying to find some way Gaius could be not dead because he was a popular villain? I like him as a villain, but when we were stuck in an escape or die situation so was he; we escaped, he did not. Gotta learn when to let go...

Again, as long as people are admitting it's just wishful thinking...

... but there's not really any evidence to support Gaius still living except the fact we do not have his head on a pike. We shouldn't need it, for kupo's sake.

And as always, I apologize if I'm being a bit acerbic. That's just how I am.

[Morningstar1337]

I feel like mentioning that there IS a method of killing someone that ensures their death with dismemberment. The scattering or absorption of Aether. Ysayle and Thordian who were channeling primals dissipated into Aether, while Lahabrea, Igeyorhm and Narbriales were succumped to the Blade of Light and succumbed to similar fates

Though the countergument in this was would be Y'sthola. Her use of the Flow spell left stuck in the lifestream, but she was retrieved from there

[Anonymoose]

but there's not really any evidence to support Gaius still living except the fact we do not have his head on a pike. We shouldn't need it, for kupo's sake.

It bears repeating again that I'm not reading by my metric of deader than dead. Rather, I have a lack of faith in Square Enix's metric based on previous experience. Such an explosion is more than enough for me to count someone out, but can I accept conclusively that it was enough for them? Have deaths (and survivals) so far been consistent with a primary antagonist (last seen surrounded by flame, but standing) being gone for good?

This guy? This guy dies off-screen in Final Fantasy XIV? This guy? This guy dies off-screen in Final Fantasy XIV? As the old joke goes: you don't even reduce his HP to zero before that scene. It's a matter of trust. And so I leave the door open (juuust a crack) while using that lack of faith for some entertainment. It's a matter of fun.

Honestly, I expected to throw the Gaius reference out there, forget about it, get us back on track with a dozen more ways to say "It's probably Ilberd, someone new, or someone we've forgotten ... but probably Ilberd", and in the end come back with laughter and fireworks if it somehow turned out to be true. I may not be alone in meriting the accusation of being unable to just leave something be, give or take a condescending meme.

Even Alisaie wants to prod people to think of possibilities if they go back to her.

To hear people speak of him, the Griffin sounds like a man in his middle years. But if that's the case, just what has he been playing at for the past two decades? If he's so devoted to the cause, why has he waited until now to do something about it? Unless, of course...he hasn't...