Yoshida, The Creator: Savage is the worst tuning ever in an MMO

[KaitlanKela]

Re: The topic - Phase Skipping with mediocre borderline "outdated" gear. Yeah, that I can get behind. The bosses imo should be "clearable" at minimum recommended ilvl with impeccable performance of mechanics and rotations. But at the minimum ilvl one shouldn't be able to skip mechanics. That should come when the fight becomes outgeared by stuff it drops. In this instance, likely around i260 or i265

Re: It's just "too easy" which was NOT the OPs point, but it's come up because of the clickbait title (let's be honest). These fights are just way more fun than Gordias and Midas. Therefore they're more marketable and healthier from an MMO lifecycle/business perspective. Because of this, I would argue that the difficulty adjustment is good becaue 1) it will extend the longevity of the game by attracting new people to raiding that would have been discouraged by the "difficulty" of prior tiers and 2) increase revenue for SE because "casuals"/"midcore" players will sub longer to do the savage content they otherwise would not have done, which in turn leads to new and more content development.

In that respect, it's the perfect level of difficulty. Sorry. :/

[Eul]

I never clear any alex savage until today, I got my first page 1 from A9S and sooo happy with it, and the mechanic is much better than midas and gordian.

[Verius_Nox]

This thing of : hardcore population to cater is 1% looks like the Robot premade answer on any argument . i've seen this as answer on any Reply lol

Not really a robot answer. The simple fact is the population of hardcore raiders is eclipsed by the population of midcore, and casual raiders. If the hardcore raiders get bored, and quit, it won't hit their numbers as hard as midcore or casual players getting bored and leaving, and no, not many people find trying to find a static that works for them, and can clear content in a decent time, fun. Nor do they find wiping for weeks on end on team jump rope mechanics fun.

It's the unfortunate case that hardcore raiding is a very niche market, that they get pretty much ignored, but the last game that tried to market itself as the hardcore raiding bastion completely died within a month of its release. It's just not enough to matter.

[Viridiana_Sovari]

"Said the Hardcore/Eilits raider (the 1%) to the Casual raider (The 99%)" Again I say it not broken if if easy. Not everyone is skiping parts of the fights....

You aren't the 99%. It isn't that black and white. The people who enjoyed Savage Midas are more like the 5% and you are more like the 10-15%. Stop assuming that the only people who liked Midas were those who cleared it(closer to 2%) or that by default the rest of the community is on your side. A much larger portion of the community is fine just doing normal mode in DF, MSQ, dungeons, dailies, leveling alts, crafting, and the occasional primal. If you aren't willing to make a static in the first place and schedule out the time for it then savage still isn't designed for you. If you are willing to make a static you already fall into the minority of the player base. I personally consider myself pretty casual with how I approach this game. I play for a max of 12-15 hours per week generally (closer to 4 or 5 hours after progression is done), and I'm already on the final phase of a12s. Sure we played a little more week one because of excitement over new content, but I still only played the game for maybe 20ish hours the whole week. And not all of that was spent raiding. I also completed the MSQ, did the new primal a bit, and a few dungeons to make sure I capped for the week. So now I'm looking at the next 7 months and asking myself what content do I have left to do. I am not going to enjoy this raid tier for very long b/c it flew by. With a bit of gear these fights are going to become complete joke status except maybe a12s, but it still won't be very hard after framing it for a few weeks. I personally enjoy content that challenges me as a player and I literally don't get anything that I really want until the next expansion comes out. That could very well be 7 months from now. That is a major issue. Raids are supposed to be designed to give longevity to the content and this savage tier simply doesn't give that. A11s and a12s were basically designed to be for the crowd that did midas, and then they just tuned it low. All that means is that people who still suck at mechanics will get their raids killed and the clear % won't increase that much. The same people will still be complaining in another month or so when they are stuck on a12s and thought they were finally going to be spoon fed kills.

[Viridiana_Sovari]

the last game that tried to market itself as the hardcore raiding bastion completely died within a month of its release

Wildstar died for other stupid reasons, tired of people using this excuse. People want fun content not stupid gating requirements that makes them grind stuff they hate for 2 months for the "right" to do the content they enjoy. They are reusing all the art assets for savage mode anyways. Barely any new ones. The cost for them to create the savage tier is extremely low and matches the size of the community that enjoyed it. You are comparing apples and oranges my friend. We are talking about a small portion of the budget going to support a small portion of the community which is completely acceptable.

[Lambdafish]

"Said the Hardcore/Eilits raider (the 1%) to the Casual raider (The 99%)" Again I say it not broken if if easy. Not everyone is skiping parts of the fights....

Thank you for assuming. Your argument completely fell apart with this one little sentence. I am not Hardcore, you have cleared A9S, I have not, and I got Sophia onto farm today. I am however able to look past my own skill level and analyse this game from a design standpoint, which you seem to be unable to do. You seem to have ignored the fact that I said "I like the content being easier", because apparently I'm just the 1% talking down to you, good luck with that attitude, because in a social game like this, it won't get you far.

It's just "too easy" which was NOT the OPs point

This is exactly right

[Lulu89]

Being hardcore (pro players/more exp endgames) has lil to do with play time. It skill.... Again Yosh was asked to make endgame more hardcore and it back fired. Less ppl getting clears and more ppl quitting all together with raiding. You want harder game with less ppl to play with go to a diff game.. The old days are goon get over it.. Ppl don't have time for 6+ Hr raid 3-4 day a week to just fail for weeks on end.. I welcome easyer fights and more players!

Just Bc I see it one way don't make me wrong. Same go for you and everyone else. The bigger pitcher is that endgame was dyeing for many server to to it being to hard for less skilled players, and it needed to stop.

And just to set the record I'm hardcore .. But I'm done with seeing the same dam ppl clearing crap and not giveing 2 shit about the lower skill LV of newer player and just weaker gamers (noob as ppl like to call them) it getting old. Every new patch the same 40-50 endgames...Runing about in full raid gear.

[Lulu89]

Thank you for assuming. Your argument completely fell apart with this one little sentence. I am not Hardcore, you have cleared A9S, I have not, and I got Sophia onto farm today. I am however able to look past my own skill level and analyse this game from a design standpoint, which you seem to be unable to do. You seem to have ignored the fact that I said "I like the content being easier", because apparently I'm just the 1% talking down to you, good luck with that attitude, because in a social game like this, it won't get you far.

Who said that was about you? Not me.. That was a quote. I see the bigger pitcher. And SE too... After all look how easy raiding is now. Ya sure so what ppl skip shit.. And? Makeing it harder did not work!

I was pointing out that the last time SE did what the 1% asked it made more then 50% of the ppl that DID endgame quit raiding. The clear % dropped by over 1/2 going in to 3.0 Bc raiding was to hard for MOST(not all) of the ppl raiding

I'm not calling ppl out Im saying that 99% of the time ppl for get this is a casule game 1st and if only 5% of the pop is clearing endgame it to harder.(Not for everyone, but for most)

[Nihility]

i'd say the only really problem with creator savage is they made gordias savage so over the top extreme that all the raiding groups canabalized each other for best players and cut out all the less hardcore people and it got to the point where the only raids around were the playing like a full time job extremist players.
Then midan came out and was only mildly easier going so it didn't relieve the problem much at all.

so now the ready to go raid groups that were waiting for creator were way overtuned for the content.
It may be a bit on the easy side but for the majority of players it will be very welcome compared to the previous alexander raids

[Lulu89]

the trouble is the one before, how many pourcent of the playerbase did beat it? 3-5% means 95% of the playerbase simply didn't partake or didn't beat it for any reason (no enough time, no enough skill, ....).
now the question is , do they have the money to invest to make a content only for 5% of the player base? something this big for only 5% of the community? probably no.

then how do it? scrap it? or make it more accessible. do it's the best choice? who know. but don't forget FF14 is first a casual game more than a hardcore game.... because most of the playerbase is casual (i wish it was more midcore) sadly it's a reality you can't ignore.

In a nut shell! Of what I was getting at, sadly I'm sure most did not read the 2nd post.

Not really a robot answer. The simple fact is the population of hardcore raiders is eclipsed by the population of midcore, and casual raiders. If the hardcore raiders get bored, and quit, it won't hit their numbers as hard as midcore or casual players getting bored and leaving, and no, not many people find trying to find a static that works for them, and can clear content in a decent time, fun. Nor do they find wiping for weeks on end on team jump rope mechanics fun.

This! +1 Someone that see the bigger picture.

i'd say the only really problem with creator savage is they made gordias savage so over the top extreme that all the raiding groups canabalized each other for best players and cut out all the less hardcore people and it got to the point where the only raids around were the playing like a full time job extremist players.
Then midan came out and was only mildly easier going so it didn't relieve the problem much at all.

so now the ready to go raid groups that were waiting for creator were way overtuned for the content.
It may be a bit on the easy side but for the majority of players it will be very welcome compared to the previous alexander raids

Yes the bar was set to high and now ppl are mad that it been lowered.


What ppl see as skiping, is just the bar being lower and more geared/skilled players pushing faster. Your not the bigger ## sadly. You clear you shit then stop playing for 3-4 months why 10000 or more other have to fail for 3-4 months only to see new gear come out just after they finish getting it.