Yet another Red Mage post, but hear me out, please.

[Khalithar]

There is still another issue with elemental weapon. There is not elemental weakness.

The elemental properties CAN work though and adding debuffs to the weapons is a good idea. Fire can be a DoT for example, lightning could do a chain lightning effect for aoe, ice could slow for pvp, etc.

[Duelle]

That's why I'm thinking a DPS role is easier to implement for a Red Mage.

Agreed.

You can't be a half-tank or a half-healer. You can be a half DPS providing you bring massive utility to the raid.

If a RDM dealing DRG-level DPS is not gonna work, I'd settle for nothing below NIN-level damage. Anything below that reduces the job to token status, when the goal is to make jobs interchangeable to a degree without outright forcing people to bring a specific job.

[Reynhart]

The elemental properties CAN work though and adding debuffs to the weapons is a good idea. Fire can be a DoT for example, lightning could do a chain lightning effect for aoe, ice could slow for pvp, etc.

But then the "fire sword" wouldn't be very different than goring blade, chaos thrust or shadow fang, Ice sword would be another Feint...

Anything below that reduces the job to token status, when the goal is to make jobs interchangeable to a degree without outright forcing people to bring a specific job.

All you need to do is to properly balance its raid utility. A spell like Temper could be very powerful, considering the first version doubled your attack power. RDM could also be the right moment to give us a real Haste spell, since its personal damage output would be lower than every other DPS.

[MagiusNecros]

But then the "fire sword" wouldn't be very different than goring blade, chaos thrust or shadow fang, Ice sword would be another Feint...

They had no problem giving Ninja's Dancing Edge while Storm's Eye was already in place.

[Reynhart]

They had no problem giving Ninja's Dancing Edge while Storm's Eye was already in place.

Neither Dancing Edge nor Storm's Eye is the respective gimmick of its job.

Building RDM upon skills that other jobs already have would just reduce its already complicated identity.

[MagiusNecros]

Neither Dancing Edge nor Storm's Eye is the respective gimmick of its job.

Building RDM upon skills that other jobs already have would just reduce its already complicated identity.

I think you are fooling yourself if you think they will stick to Red Mage tradition. It's identity is only complicated because when introduced it will be simplified and perform nothing like it's predecessors in other actual FF games in the franchise.

Cue SMN, BLM, DRK, BRD and what have you.

Just wait and see. Speculation is pointless.

[Khalithar]

Speculation is pointless.

But it's also fun.

[MagiusNecros]

But it's also fun.

Well of course it is. That's why many bust out the popcorn when there are 20 page debates of "class should be like this" while 2 parties proceed to disagree with each other until the actual job gets released.

Then the 1 year hiatus of job is borked because in every other game they did this and in this game it does that.

:P

[Telsyr]

Clothies/mages make poor tanks.

Except that cloth armor can be made to be as strong, or even stronger than steel and if made right had more advantages than plate armor. Demonology Warlocks in Cataclysm could tank, did it well too, they just lacked crit avoidance and if Blizzard had nurtured it they could of set a precedent.

Red Mages Have always wore 'near' the same armor as a Dragoon, coupled with shields but with the exception of their lower overall health, they still made formidable frontline fighters. So yes I could see them as tanks.

I think you are fooling yourself if you think they will stick to Red Mage tradition.

Cue SMN, BLM, DRK, BRD and what have you.

I agree the traditions of Red Mage probably wouldn't be a good idea, but they can still stick to the 'image' of Red Mage, much like you said BRD, DRK are different traditional, and still achieve the identity of Red Mage.

[Lyth]

You could certainly design RDM as a tank if you wanted. In FFI, the job made a fairly good Fighter substitute early on, being able to equip most early Swords, Shields, and Armor.

I mentally associate RDM most with Double/Dualcast. I think you'd need to have cast times on your spells if you wanted to give this a different feeling from NIN's Duality, however. I'm not sure how this would work in a job which also had a melee element to its gameplay.

My main concern, though, is how the addition of a new tank would impact the existing tank balance. At the moment, PLD is designed to have an advantage in physical mitigation, DRK in magical mitigation, and WAR has the highest baseline dps. If you make RDM into a magic tank, then how would you differentiate it from DRK?

Tank and healer roles seem to be the most difficult to balance. From what we've been told, the expansion promises to address significant balance issues between the existing tanks, as well as offer a much needed overhaul to the way that our gear stats work (parry in particular). I don't think that it's a good idea to throw in a completely new tank job into the mix, introducing fresh balance issues, at the same time.