Yet another Red Mage post, but hear me out, please.

[DeLaRainebow]

As a veteran of the FF series, tactics, and a long time FFXI player, I (and many others) have yearned for the Iconic Red Mage. This staple of the Final Fantasy series is one of the most revered (and, lets be honest, the coolest) classes. From the feathered cap to the arrogant stance, we love our Red Mage.

Getting straight to the point - Disciples of Magic are half the number of Disciples of War. There is also no Disciple of Magic Tank. To add another Disciple of Magic and another Tank, I purpose that Red Mages be a Disciple of Magic Tank.

Without going into too much detail - The Red Mage uses Elemental Magic to both Armor/Shield himself and Arm himself for Melee combat.

Basically, a Mage that can Tank. The Red Mage has an array of Self-Buff spells that allow her to take sustained damage while doing Melee Damage with a magically generated elemental weapon .(Think Flame Sword or Ice Shield or Wind Hammer)

[Reynhart]

I still don't understand why everyone thinks elemental weapons are a staple of Red Mage...for their many many appearances, FFXI is the only game where they do that.

Especially jarring, considering there's a whole job based on this mechanic, the Mystic Knight...which, funnily enough, was a tank in FFXI

[DeLaRainebow]

You're absolutely right about Mystic Knight and Red Mage not always having elemental affinity. The point wasn't necessarily how the Red Mage accomplishes it's role as a Magic Tank, but more for the Iconic Look of Red Mage to be associated, in this FF game, to a Tank class that Relies on INT more than VIT.

[SyzzleSpark]

Clothies/mages make poor tanks.

[MagiusNecros]

Clothies/mages make poor tanks.

Meanwhile let me glamour on a fancy dress and tank just fine. Mage Tanks can work. It's simply unfortunate that to be executed in XIV they would have to do a good job of it and I doubt they have the integrity to break the mold of heavy armor thing soaking all the hits.

I can easily see magic shields instead of the usual stances. But really what changes outside of an aesthetic touch.

[Reynhart]

Meanwhile let me glamour on a fancy dress and tank just fine.

Glamour is just an illusion.

Mage tanks can works but it would be a bit tricky concerning gear. Unless their main stats are still VIT/STR...so they're not really "mages", you'd have to design a new set for this new tank. Actually, since DPS each have their own main stat, it could be interesting to not put all tanks on STR and I'd love my PLD to rely on MND.

But, seeing as they tend to streamline stats, I suppose they'd just switch to full Vitality for Attack Power.

[Duelle]

I still don't understand why everyone thinks elemental weapons are a staple of Red Mage...for their many many appearances, FFXI is the only game where they do that.

Taking into account that the job is a hybrid in concept, the fact that it'd eventually figure out how to combine its various disciplines actually makes a lot of sense. Part of the reason why it didn't do any of that in older FFs was because turn-based RPG combat does not work with things like buff upkeep in the vein of enspells (in general, turn-based RPGs require an entirely different mindset when it comes to hybrid design). You're essentially wasting a turn just to get a buff up (two if that RDM has Temper or Saber on top of their chosen Enspell) when that turn would be used more efficiently by a warrior or any other damage-focused job (or even just having that RDM cast a cure on someone).

Real-time combat is an entirely different can of worms, and is actually perfect for what I've described above. Specially in light of the fact that RDM can't afford to be mediocre at everything when the game's design pushed towards tank/heals/DPS. Depending on whether you want to push them towards tank or DPS, you can use magic to bolster defenses or enchant your sword to deal comparable damage to a DRG or NIN.

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This all said, I don't believe that DoW and DoM numbers need any sort of parity. New jobs of either vein should be introduced on an as-needed basis rather than say "well, DoW has this many classes, so there needs to be more DoM" or anything along those lines.

[ADVSS]

I still don't understand why everyone thinks elemental weapons are a staple of Red Mage...for their many many appearances, FFXI is the only game where they do that.

Especially jarring, considering there's a whole job based on this mechanic, the Mystic Knight...which, funnily enough, was a tank in FFXI

Thankyou reynhart, all of my points spelled out perfectly.
If we dont get redmage, and instead mystic knight this time i will be happy, smashing the two together out of bull is dumb. Alisae is using mystic knight and rune fencing, a much more plausible mix than redmage being forced to mystic knight tank

And if done right i will probably fall in love with it, like i did in ff5 and restart tanking. if not a tank ill just dps no loss to me really

Taking into account that the job is a hybrid in concept, the fact that it'd eventually figure out how to combine its various disciplines actually makes a lot of sense. Part of the reason why it didn't do any of that in older FFs was because turn-based RPG combat does not work with things like buff upkeep in the vein of enspells (in general, turn-based RPGs require an entirely different mindset when it comes to hybrid design). You're essentially wasting a turn just to get a buff up (two if that RDM has Temper or Saber on top of their chosen Enspell) when that turn would be used more efficiently by a warrior or any other damage-focused job (or even just having that RDM cast a cure on someone).

Real-time combat is an entirely different can of worms, and is actually perfect for what I've described above. Specially in light of the fact that RDM can't afford to be mediocre at everything when the game's design pushed towards tank/heals/DPS. Depending on whether you want to push them towards tank or DPS, you can use magic to bolster defenses or enchant your sword to deal comparable damage to a DRG or NIN.

-------------------------------------------

This all said, I don't believe that DoW and DoM numbers need any sort of parity. New jobs of either vein should be introduced on an as-needed basis rather than say "well, DoW has this many classes, so there needs to be more DoM" or anything along those lines.

what do you define bard or machinist as in this game then? dont think there can be a melee that temoers and supports or is the concept just too far out to even understand, not to mention now both
support but ima dps i swear i just dont get excluded from raids" jobs even fit in your catagpry, or is this still a magical concept that maybe there can be a melee with some range? or is it only the same concept so it has to be a tank no matter what, a new tank, with bard songs. because that applies and doesnt apply at the same time to the current meta, which is exactly the only kind of tank that isnt available given our choices? seriously. mystic knight AND red mage can fit in the same game, they have just enough identitiy imo and id wait another 2 years if a proper rdm is so hard to release for SE to get it right, as it was and alway been

All im saying from the dps community of redmages and not all by far, is that you can make DPS that supports like bard and now machinist it doesnt have to be a pro dps it just has to have some good stuff to go along with its lack of damage, and everyone of you know, all we got so far are ranged when it comes to support like that. Why, at all, do people assume when the dps red mages want red mage to be a dps that we just want to flare bust and fire 4 everything? we dont! we want a job that can fix a dumb raid, help raise a party member, maybe heal the tank enough so the weathered healer longcasting res or raise has a break. At least thats where i see redmage, being the extra shield from a wipe, given a fair and hard amount of player skill, someone who wants to add to the groups damage but is more inclined to aid the party to victory, in more ways than just dps dps dps dps dps dps dps dps

[Reynhart]

There is still another issue with elemental weapon. There is not elemental weakness.

You could say that each element could have an additionnal debuff, but then, it would just be "debuffing swords"

Taking into account that the job is a hybrid in concept, the fact that it'd eventually figure out how to combine its various disciplines actually makes a lot of sense.

That's why I'm thinking a DPS role is easier to implement for a Red Mage. You can't be a half-tank or a half-healer. You can be a half DPS providing you bring massive utility to the raid.

[MagiusNecros]

There is still another issue with elemental weapon. There is not elemental weakness.

Could easily just make the weapon inflict physical and magic damage. And buffing the weapon just buffs magic damage output.