Yoshida, The Creator: Savage is the worst tuning ever in an MMO

[ChocoFeru]

Our group was able to clear A11s with an everage gear of 245 but i can tell you we would be able to clear it even in 242/243 , midcore group 250 group can clear it easy ( yes so if u have money the first week a midcore group can clear it too) maybe soft group can clear it in 260. All this to say that in 2 months every1 will clear and there will be an hole of 4 or + months with people who don't know what to do since they even completed the hardest thing

Then what should SE do? Put a gearcheck cap? Like, if you don't do X DPS you won't advance, or if you don't have enough HP to survive, you'll just die. That would require you to obtain more gear and wait weeks in order to "unlock" the gearcheck. That's just artificial difficulty, wich is boring and not challenging at all.

Yesterday I started raiding for almost 2h, we downed Faust at second try (tanks didn't split DMG) and downed the boss at 20% aprox. Yeah, seems easier and mechanics on this boss are easy to remember and understand.

But still, I don't know what would be the best way to make raiding more challenging without gearchecks or luck with drops.

Maybe making different difficulties? Normal, Savage and ExtremeSavageUltra? XP

[LunnaRavenheart]

..snip..

Its easy, there are 2 options to improve that.
1) more bosses with better scale of difficulty. 12 bosses in tier scaling from easiest like A9S to hardest like A8S and even harder.
OR
2) 4 bosses but with more difficulty settings and rewards

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Its easy, there are 2 options to improve that.
1) more bosses with better scale of difficulty. 12 bosses in tier scaling from easiest like A9S to hardest like A8S and even harder.
OR
2) 4 bosses but with more difficulty settings and rewards

Yep. I think just two more bosses and normal be scaled a bit higher would make a world of difference. For those who just want story, they can wait a month or two when the relevant gear outpaces most of normal while Savage as a whole doesn't murder statics as early as it did. I feel people would handle the last two bosses in a six tier raid hitting hard because they've already processed through ten fights and psyched themselves up. FFXIV suffers heavily from massive leaps in difficulty.

[LunnaRavenheart]

The very reason why I think FF14 beats WoW.

Grind Raidfinder to be able to beat Normal.
Grind normal to be able to beat Heroic.
Grind heroic to be able to beat mythic.

No. No god please no.

Well, atleast you have something to do there. I dont know if beat 4 bosses in 1 month and then afk for 5 months is better option here.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

The very reason why I think FF14 beats WoW.

Grind Raidfinder to be able to beat Normal.
Grind normal to be able to beat Heroic.
Grind heroic to be able to beat mythic.

No. No god please no.

I would do it where you choose the difficulty at your leisure. Using A8S as an example, he'd a min ilvl of 225 and a max of ilvl 250. Rewards would be scaled according to what you set, which can be scaled in increments of five.

240+ = Just a clear
230-240 = Current reward structure
225-230 = No loot restrictions

From there, you could add rewards and achievements for underleveling him, have mounts/minions/etc drop at specific thresholds or simply increase their odds the harder you make it. Basically, if you wanted say, Titan's pony. You couldn't jump in unsynced and blow through him in two minutes. So those ponies retain their worth for those who got them back when Titan was relevant.

[KaitlanKela]

Not the end, no. The content is already being developed for Normal Mode and they are spending pennies developing Savage Mode. This is how it works for every MMORPG on the market including World of Warcraft, zero exceptions.

If you really think the extra skills, mechanics, animations models and transitions only take pennies to make I don't think there's much more that can be said

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Not the end, no. The content is already being developed for Normal Mode and they are spending pennies developing Savage Mode. This is how it works for every MMORPG on the market including World of Warcraft, zero exceptions.

Yeah, no. It doesn't quite work out that way. First and foremost, they have to adjust the mechanics based on how many new additions will be added, then have to account for server space, balance, tests and any changes in aesthetic. To give an example the sheer complexity seemingly simple looking animations can be, Tifa's hair in Advent Children was constantly re-rendered in order to create a proper fluidity. This wound up being one of the most costly bits of animation in the entire film, and the primary reason they eventually stopped showing it as much as they could get away with. If I recall, Tifa's fight with Loz took a massive chunk of the budget all because of her hair. Rounding this back to Savage, one new attack and its associated animations do not come cheap. You need only ask Skyrim or Fallout modders how long it takes for them to develop one. None of this includes the man hour costs either.

[Velhart]

Yeah, no. It doesn't quite work out that way. First and foremost, they have to adjust the mechanics based on how many new additions will be added, then have to account for server space, balance, tests and any changes in aesthetic. To give an example the sheer complexity seemingly simple looking animations can be, Tifa's hair in Advent Children was constantly re-rendered in order to create a proper fluidity. This wound up being one of the most costly bits of animation in the entire film, and the primary reason they eventually stopped showing it as much as they could get away with. If I recall, Tifa's fight with Loz took a massive chunk of the budget all because of her hair. Rounding this back to Savage, one new attack and its associated animations do not come cheap. You need only ask Skyrim or Fallout modders how long it takes for them to develop one. None of this includes the man hour costs either.

Not taking sides since I don't know how development of these entirely work, but SE did say in an interview once is how they make raid content is they first build it where it is impossible to defeat the boss, and then work down the intensity of the mechanics and checks till they are at a level that is considered balanced. So if this is a thing, then ideally it shouldn't cost -that much- to add extra modes. Even SCoB Savage was just simply just bringing things they took out back.

[Kyne_Lyons]

Yeah, no. It doesn't quite work out that way.

If you really think the extra skills, mechanics, animations models and transitions only take pennies to make I don't think there's much more that can be said

Except that it does, and they've already said as much. Given the choice I will always believe what a tenured MMO developer says before a forum poster.

You could also skip phases 1st day in i210 in Midas Savage.

Where were the forum posts crying about that?

The only forced phase pushing possible in that entire tier was on A5S and A7S, and it wasn't possible unless you were doing 1-healer AST pulls which weren't happening day 1 or had a lot of i240 which wasn't possible day 1. You're inventing this.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Not taking sides since I don't know how development of these entirely work, but SE did say in an interview once is how they make raid content is they first build it where it is impossible to defeat the boss, and then work down the intensity of the mechanics and checks till they are at a level that is considered balanced. So if this is a thing, then ideally it shouldn't cost -that much- to add extra modes. Even SCoB Savage was just simply just bringing things they took out back.

That doesn't mean there isn't still a substantial cost involved. Even if they build Savage first, then scale down, they have to re-design the fight to accommodate a few missing mechanics, thus necessitating different animations and/or coding. The quote you cited doesn't specify money. Saying one of the raid tier is "pennies on the dollar" is ridiculous. Computer animation and CGI is absurdly expensive. Not to mention, you again, have man hours. Regardless, it remains a waste of resources if 1% of players even bother with.

Except that it does, and they've already said as much. Given the choice I will always believe what a tenured MMO developer says before a forum poster.

Did they cite specific examples of costs or say it's cheap? If not, then I suspect you're misinterpreting. Regardless, if you'd "rather listen a MMO developer," I suppose you should support these changes. After all, if FFXIV's dev team found Gordias/Midas profitable and/or worthwhile of their resources, they wouldn't have dropped the difficulty on The Creator. A9S-A12S is essentially them saying, the clear rates were far too low and it needs to be better accessible to be worthwhile.