Arrow card questions

[StouterTaru]

I've heard that arrows are great for BLMs, especially during aoe situations

For the first ~11-17 seconds it's nice: F3 > F2 x3 > SwiftFlare (Convert > Flare) > Transpose > Wait on MP tick. After that, your rotation lasts 15 seconds if you have 800+ Spell Speed: F3 > F2 x2 > Flare > Transpose > Wait on MP tick

Having 10% off cast time for that first 11-17 seconds means transpose happens 1.1-1.7 seconds earlier. The possible scenarios:

1. Pack dies in first wave before transpose - You just cut 1 second off the dungeon run
2. Pack is under 10% after first wave - Rather than going back into AF, it's better to use Freeze/Blizzard II/Blizzard/Scathe, and extra one of these is a small boost
3. Pack still has quite a bit of HP after first wave - The 1-2 seconds might have put your 2nd wave 3 seconds earlier, or it might be in exactly the same spot

In none of those scenarios is there any dramatic increase in damage. A more likely scenario: (not realizing Arrow was tossed your way) Transpose > Fire 3 without getting the 2nd MP tick > Fire 2 (or Flare if you caught it) > Wait for transpose to be back up

[FoxyAreku]

Still don't buy this 'don't give black mages arrows' conversation. Even as someone who plays the class for fun occassionally. Spell speed is almost as high of a stat weight as intellect for black mage for a reason, and arrow basically gives them that.

[FunkyBunch]

Still don't buy this 'don't give black mages arrows' conversation. Even as someone who plays the class for fun occassionally. Spell speed is almost as high of a stat weight as intellect for black mage for a reason, and arrow basically gives them that.

It gives them SS, but we're already as high as we want to be most of the time.
All giving Arrow does is make us wait extra time for an MP tick or screw up the rotation by denying us an MP tick because our F3 was too fast.
Leylines is used because the Single Target rotation casts three spells in Umbral Ice, which should always give you three MP ticks. (Under Arrow+Leylines it MAY only give you two, which is a problem)
The AoE rotation however, you cast a single spell in Umbral Ice, and that spell is already perilously close to 3 seconds, gaining any extra spell speed will DENY the mana tick you need because it will be less than 3 seconds.

You don't have to believe me that giving BLM Arrow is never as useful as you think it is, or that in many cases it's just a bad idea. But you will someday, cause someone to miss a Flare and they will be mad or very confused. It took me about 3 missed Flares one dungeon to realize I was getting Spell Speed buffed too fast to get the mana tick I needed.

[ElasmoFan]

What I'm learning from this thread is to just ask at the start if anyone wants to not have arrow.

[Lunaxia]

I don't give BLMs Arrow for the aforementioned reasons; it's all down to individual preference, and I'd rather just toss them Balances instead of giving them a buff they might not want that could potentially screw up their rotation. Never had any complaints about it.

[FoxyAreku]

It gives them SS, but we're already as high as we want to be most of the time.

????

That doesn't make any sense, that's like saying you have as much intellect as you want. It's a DPS increase, if you're worried about mana ticks just do a single freeze cast after blizzard III, you'll be full mana by the time it's over.

For flare I just don't understand that because you don't get mana at all during astral fire to begin with. I apologize if I am missing something, but I've done the AoE rotation many times with arrow on me and it's always an increase from what I can tell.

[Fernosaur]

I don't give BLMs Arrow for the aforementioned reasons; it's all down to individual preference, and I'd rather just toss them Balances instead of giving them a buff they might not want that could potentially screw up their rotation. Never had any complaints about it.

Same. If I get an arrow, I'll just put it on myself during trash pulls and Gravity spam, lol, UNLESS there is a BRD or MCH. Though if they don't seem to be doing good damage I'll just put it on myself anyways. I used to give Arrows to BLMs on bosses but after reading this thread I might stop doing that and use it as Royal Road food instead if no one else would benefit from it...

[Fernosaur]

????

That doesn't make any sense, that's like saying you have as much intellect as you want. It's a DPS increase, if you're worried about mana ticks just do a single freeze cast after blizzard III, you'll be full mana by the time it's over.

It actually does make sense, though. It's the same with DRGs. There is a point in which you have much more SS than you need, and it can be detrimental to your rotation because of buffs falling off and coming back up at different times, or in the case of BLM, by messing up with the mana ticks once they get into Umbral Ice, forcing them to stay in Umbral longer without doing anything or entirely messing up their entry into Astral Fire if they don't notice the speed buff.

[HPDelron]

My Arrow Rules:
1. Give it to BLM if they are doing their Solo Rotation. Never give it to them for their AoE Rotation, this is where they get thrown off.
...
8. SMN. I read somewhere Arrow wasn't potent enough to make their Ruin III casts during Dreadwyrm Stance fast enough to add one more cast.

The fast enough "to add one more cast" thing, kind of sticks out to me. I'm not 100% convinced that's the only metric to go by.


One thing about the arrow I've noticed at least when using it on myself is the mobility afforded by shaving those few moments off the end of the casting. I'm sure there are lots of situations where the arrow does at best, nothing particularly useful: When you are standing static in front of a target dummy with no movement, no need to spend precious brain cycles on mechanics, and you get to pick out the cherry run where you make no mistakes. There I'm positive, it probably isn't going to get many people many extra casts. Even if it did it's not like you want to build your rotation expectations around a buff another party member may or may not get to hand you.


In practice however there are a great deal many more restrictions on what you can do than the theoretical limits of your rotation being executed properly. In an actual fight especially a new one your mental focus will be split, and there will be environmental effects and mechanics (quite possibly random ones) demanding on-the-fly compensation.

I've certainly heard the BLMs I play with loudly curse losing their buff to small mistakes in timing when doing mechs, or winding up face down in the dirt because they were just trying to get that last cast in a hair before they have to move. If they'd have arrow on, things might turn out differently.

[FunkyBunch]

????

That doesn't make any sense, that's like saying you have as much intellect as you want. It's a DPS increase, if you're worried about mana ticks just do a single freeze cast after blizzard III, you'll be full mana by the time it's over.

Ahh, now I understand where you're confused. You're doing the AoE rotation incorrectly. You don't cast B3.
You go from Flare-Transpose-F3-F2-F2-Flare->repeat.
So you're only time in UI is while casting F3. So you absolutely cannot afford your F3 to be less than 3 seconds.