Make Stone Sky Sea mandatory

[Kaurie]

1) Coz people start whining about not being accepted onto groups because x does more on said boss
2) Same as above
3) Exactly... So what's the point of it again?
4) Hyberbole, you joining clear groups? Don't be surprised if the kill doesn't happen. You joining farm groups? Everyone has cleared already and wipes are down to mechanics usually.... The issue here is? I still fail to see it.

Just for future reference no-one has said it results in lost subs, we are saying it does nothing to fix the problem you have invented in your head.

1. So it doesn't affect balance, it just affects people's understanding of balance - which you argue is a bad thing.
2. "Same as above" - both games have this issue, as stated. MCH wasn't allowed in many groups and was actually kicked from existing groups towards the beginning of 3.x. This was despite the MCH actually pulling good DPS. People just had incorrect preconceived notions of what was good and bad. At least the parser validates or invalidates those concerns.
3. The point of a parser is to measure and evaluate performance. Your reasoning for this can vary - but stopping the community as a whole from being bad is a pretty ambitious goal.
4. Yeah Hyperbole. Mostly, I was saying ridiculously stupid arguments, as I thought that's what we were doing. I join clear groups and I am not surprised when a kill doesn't happen. In FFXIV, I'm also not surprised if the lowest DPS player starts yelling at everyone else for not doing enough DPS, or if the healer initiates a kick on the "X class which is expected to be bad (i.e. MCH)" despite them pulling the top DPS etc.

I don't want a parser for clear or farm party finder groups, personally. I just want a parser to evaluate myself and my team accurately. I think that the reasoning against a parser is misguided and ill-conceived.

Actually, Auteur mentioned how SE as a business needs to target to the mass audience. My argument is that the game with the largest audience uses a parser - so having a parser doesn't mean they are not catering to a mass audience.

I didn't invent any problem in my head. What problem do you think I invented?

99.9% of wipes, deaths or avoidable damage are due to messing up mechanics. Until they introduce 8 man SSS with full mechanics it's not going to be as useful as you think.

Oh wait... They have, it's call "the Duty". If you are completely unwilling to put in time learning a fight with others may I suggest that you look at playing one of the solo Final Fantasy games. The very existence of FFXIV is dependent on playing with others who are not carbon copies of you.

You clearly never joined Bismark clear parties back in 3.0 :P

[Underdog2204]

Snip

1) You seen the forums? Yes I call it a bad thing.
2) How many MCH's did you/or have you seens kicked? The "stories" of it were greatly exaggerated and little to no evidence actually shown.
3) Which can be done without it... You win the fight? Gtz you did your job.
4) Soo you just wanna call people out on dps too then? Great -_-

A group one certainly should never be allowed, personal ones I perfectly fine with. But again you haven't answered my question.... How would this help fix the problem you percieve is happening?

Soo... Only you should be able to see the numbers being pulled then? Since your "team" will also include PF groups.

[Kaurie]

1) You seen the forums? Yes I call it a bad thing.
2) How many MCH's did you/or have you seens kicked? The "stories" of it were greatly exaggerated and little to no evidence actually shown.
3) Which can be done without it... You win the fight? Gtz you did your job.
4) Soo you just wanna call people out on dps too then? Great -_-

A group one certainly should never be allowed, personal ones I perfectly fine with. But again you haven't answered my question.... How would this help fix the problem you percieve is happening?

Soo... Only you should be able to see the numbers being pulled then? Since your "team" will also include PF groups.

1. Which forums? I frequent both WoW and FFXIV forums, both are pretty crazy - but a good read. That said, players understanding the level of balance is a good thing, in my opinion.
2. I have seen more MCH's get kicked in 3.0 than I have ever seen anyone be kicked in WoW - note I've only played WoW during BC, Cata, a bit in WoD and now Legion. People over-exaggerate on both ends.
3. You cannot measure your performance with out it. You can determine if you succeeded or not, but measurement you cannot do.
4. I want people to understand their own DPS, and I want (for myself and for others) to see how DPS changes as (myself/others) adjust their rotations with given mechanics

Personally, I think a personal parser would do more harm than good. However, I think a group parser would be overall better for both the community and my personal enjoyment of the game.

What problem do you think I perceive is happening? It's hard for me to answer the question when I don't know what you're talking about. The problem is that I cannot measure my performance, this would enable me to measure my performance.

Last sentence, not sure what you mean. Why would only I be able to see it? That said, I mean my raid team specifically - I do very little other content in this game. (Naturally this is just me personally, and I still think that a group parser would be better overall for the game and community as a whole).

[Underdog2204]

Snip

If you cannot measure performance without it then nothing should've ever been cleared. Yes you cannot get a precise measurement but you certainly can tell how well how things are going if you have any idea how your job works. I have a friends who heal alot for me and he doesn't parse, even he can tell how well things are going on the dps side of things over the course of a fight. Saying you are totally blind without it is just a lie tbh.

You clearly are perciving a problem that there is a problem with dps in farm and clear groups... So much so you want the opportunity to rate other players based on performance under the guise of your own self improvement whilst by the same token saying "nope being able to see only my dps numbers isn't good enough and harmful because of my own self improvement"... It does not make any sense.

I'm sure someone in your group already does so what are you complaining about? Why would you care about random's performance if you don't run stuff with them? Your argument is full of contridications imo.

[Kaurie]

If you cannot measure performance without it then nothing should've ever been cleared. Yes you cannot get a precise measurement but you certainly can tell how well how things are going if you have any idea how your job works. I have a friends who heals alot for me and he doesn't parse, even he can tell how well things are going on the dps side of things over the course of a fight.

You clearly are perciving a problem that there is a problem with dps in farm and clear groups... So much so you want the opportunity to rate other players based on performance under the guise of your own self improvement whilst by the same token saying "nope being able to see only my dps numbers isn't good enough because of self improvement"... It does not make any sense.

I'm sure someone in your group already does so what are you complaining about and why would you care about random's performance if you don't run stuff with them? Your argument is full of contridications imo.

I think you are not understanding the term measurement when I say it. "You can tell if things are going well" is not a unit of measure.

Your second paragraph doesn't match my argument or stance at all. I perceive that the problem is that we cannot measure our DPS. Farm, clear, expert roulette, leveling, doesn't matter what - you can't see what your DPS is. I don't want to "rate" anyone, I want to evaluate my performance as I make changes to my DPS - I want my Ninja to see how my DPS changes when he moves trick attack up 5 seconds earlier in the pull - I want me to see how everyone elses DPS drops if he moves it up on my behalf etc. etc.

Seeing only your own DPS is not helpful, because it gives you no room to understand how it fits in on a relative basis. If you see that you have 1500 DPS, then great? If you see you have 1500 DPS and the rest of your team did 2500, then you know something is up. This aspect here is more useful for newer players when learning their class, and newer to 60. That said, it can still be useful in a raid team - or when you are new to certain content and are unsure how your damage will change with phase changes etc. As mentioned above, being able to see your team DPS matters, because you have team buffs etc.

A personal parser would create issues of people demanding everyone report their numbers in party finder groups etc. It could result in people lying or withholding information and ultimately, I believe, would just create more tension and toxicity than having everything out in the open.

My issue is that I cannot see on my screen while I play, because if I were to use a parser with a mini window, then I have to be in borderless windowed. In full-screen, it won't work. Unfortunately, SLI doesn't work out of Full Screen. Further, ACT is not super accurate as it estimates DoTs - which is a major component of my DPS. Then there is the removal of some team mates not being able to see how these numbers change while playing, due to being on PS4.

I care about random people's performance, because I care about the health of the game. I think that if you are able to evaluate your damage as you level, you'll see how things work a lot more clearly. This will result in better players at max level. This obviously won't get rid of all the bads, as you put it earlier, but it may help raise the bar a little.

Consider driving a car. Having a speedometer allows you to see your speed and measure it. This helps you drive in a more controlled manner. Not having one doesn't mean that you can't drive, you'll probably just match the speed of the car in front of you. It's still a useful tool used to measure yourself though. Having it obviously doesn't result in no car accidents or only good drivers, but not having it might increase those things. Before you say, yes I realize that a speedometer and a DPS parser are not the same thing, and there are many aspects of each that may affect its importance - for example, a speedometer is important for actual safety. Another example, for DPS you are aiming to go as high as possible, where a speed is often limited. Driving is not a team activity, DPS is etc. etc. I am mostly using this analogy, so that you understand what I mean when I say "measure". A car arriving at point B is not a measurement, a car driving 50 miles per hour is.

Finally, I'd like to mention that you say my argument has a lot of holes, but it seems that most of these 'holes' appear, because you are making a lot of incorrect assumptions of me as both a person and player.

[Xiao_]

I don't want a parser for clear or farm party finder groups, personally. I just want a parser to evaluate myself and my team accurately. I think that the reasoning against a parser is misguided and ill-conceived.

Exactly this. I don't want to bully anyone, having hard numbers behind how well I'm doing shows me whether I need to improve or not. Of course it doesn't tell me HOW to improve, but it's still very useful.