Make Stone Sky Sea mandatory

[Kaurie]

Yeah I've seen all the good things it did for balance, group requirements (for classes specifically) and how it stopped people being bad. Oh wait.... -_-

Failures are due to lack of adherence to mechanics mostly not the bogeyman you seem to be chasing.

And as evidenced, it resulted in WoW's downfall and that is why WoW has barely any subs vs its competitors!

PS: Not sure why a parser would affect balance?
PPS: Group requirements can be absurd in both games, and not in both games (I witness both all the time in both games)
PPPS: Not sure why a parser would stop people from being bad.
PPPPS: I guess if we want to stop people from being bad, we should remove rotations and gear as those are the 2 main causes of poor play!

[Kaurie]

Hmm, I guess going on the line of previous thinking, we can say any feature we want is bad - so long as it doesn't do what it isn't intended to do.

Let's think... Being able to be every job on character is bad, because all saw how well that worked at getting everyone to be gillionaires!

[Underdog2204]

And as evidenced, it resulted in WoW's downfall and that is why WoW has barely any subs vs its competitors!

PS: Not sure why a parser would affect balance?
PPS: Group requirements can be absurd in both games, and not in both games (I witness both all the time in both games)
PPPS: Not sure why a parser would stop people from being bad.
PPPPS: I guess if we want to stop people from being bad, we should remove rotations and gear as those are the 2 main causes of poor play!

1) Coz people start whining about not being accepted onto groups because x does more dps on y.
2) Same as above
3) Exactly... So what's the point of it again?
4) Hyberbole, you joining clear groups? Don't be surprised if the kill doesn't happen. You joining farm groups? Everyone has cleared already and wipes are down to mechanics usually.... The issue here is? I still fail to see it.

Just for future reference no-one has said it results in lost subs, we are saying it does nothing to fix the problem you have invented in your head.

[DeeColon]

SE needs to make it so we can set a Stone, Sky, Sea cleared filter on Partyfinder rather than make it mandatory for the content. It'd be perfectly fair.

[Culfinrandir]

99.9% of wipes, deaths or avoidable damage are due to messing up mechanics. Until they introduce 8 man SSS with full mechanics it's not going to be as useful as you think.

Oh wait... They have, it's call "the Duty". If you are completely unwilling to put in time learning a fight with others may I suggest that you look at playing one of the solo Final Fantasy games. The very existence of FFXIV is dependent on playing with others who are not carbon copies of you.

[Kaurie]

1) Coz people start whining about not being accepted onto groups because x does more on said boss
2) Same as above
3) Exactly... So what's the point of it again?
4) Hyberbole, you joining clear groups? Don't be surprised if the kill doesn't happen. You joining farm groups? Everyone has cleared already and wipes are down to mechanics usually.... The issue here is? I still fail to see it.

Just for future reference no-one has said it results in lost subs, we are saying it does nothing to fix the problem you have invented in your head.

1. So it doesn't affect balance, it just affects people's understanding of balance - which you argue is a bad thing.
2. "Same as above" - both games have this issue, as stated. MCH wasn't allowed in many groups and was actually kicked from existing groups towards the beginning of 3.x. This was despite the MCH actually pulling good DPS. People just had incorrect preconceived notions of what was good and bad. At least the parser validates or invalidates those concerns.
3. The point of a parser is to measure and evaluate performance. Your reasoning for this can vary - but stopping the community as a whole from being bad is a pretty ambitious goal.
4. Yeah Hyperbole. Mostly, I was saying ridiculously stupid arguments, as I thought that's what we were doing. I join clear groups and I am not surprised when a kill doesn't happen. In FFXIV, I'm also not surprised if the lowest DPS player starts yelling at everyone else for not doing enough DPS, or if the healer initiates a kick on the "X class which is expected to be bad (i.e. MCH)" despite them pulling the top DPS etc.

I don't want a parser for clear or farm party finder groups, personally. I just want a parser to evaluate myself and my team accurately. I think that the reasoning against a parser is misguided and ill-conceived.

Actually, Auteur mentioned how SE as a business needs to target to the mass audience. My argument is that the game with the largest audience uses a parser - so having a parser doesn't mean they are not catering to a mass audience.

I didn't invent any problem in my head. What problem do you think I invented?

99.9% of wipes, deaths or avoidable damage are due to messing up mechanics. Until they introduce 8 man SSS with full mechanics it's not going to be as useful as you think.

Oh wait... They have, it's call "the Duty". If you are completely unwilling to put in time learning a fight with others may I suggest that you look at playing one of the solo Final Fantasy games. The very existence of FFXIV is dependent on playing with others who are not carbon copies of you.

You clearly never joined Bismark clear parties back in 3.0 :P

[Underdog2204]

Snip

1) You seen the forums? Yes I call it a bad thing.
2) How many MCH's did you/or have you seens kicked? The "stories" of it were greatly exaggerated and little to no evidence actually shown.
3) Which can be done without it... You win the fight? Gtz you did your job.
4) Soo you just wanna call people out on dps too then? Great -_-

A group one certainly should never be allowed, personal ones I perfectly fine with. But again you haven't answered my question.... How would this help fix the problem you percieve is happening?

Soo... Only you should be able to see the numbers being pulled then? Since your "team" will also include PF groups.

[Dogempire]

Not really sure how I feel about this thread, I mean the dps check seems like a great idea and all.

But my i206 summoner couldn't beat the Alexander Gordias Savage dummy while pushing 1200 dps, I wouldn't want to get lucked out of a duty on my dps because I couldn't hit the dps check.

The thing is, SSS was made for people who want to practice their rotations or tell if they're up to snuff for certain content.

I'm pretty sure a move like this would do more harm to the game than good.

[Kaurie]

1) You seen the forums? Yes I call it a bad thing.
2) How many MCH's did you/or have you seens kicked? The "stories" of it were greatly exaggerated and little to no evidence actually shown.
3) Which can be done without it... You win the fight? Gtz you did your job.
4) Soo you just wanna call people out on dps too then? Great -_-

A group one certainly should never be allowed, personal ones I perfectly fine with. But again you haven't answered my question.... How would this help fix the problem you percieve is happening?

Soo... Only you should be able to see the numbers being pulled then? Since your "team" will also include PF groups.

1. Which forums? I frequent both WoW and FFXIV forums, both are pretty crazy - but a good read. That said, players understanding the level of balance is a good thing, in my opinion.
2. I have seen more MCH's get kicked in 3.0 than I have ever seen anyone be kicked in WoW - note I've only played WoW during BC, Cata, a bit in WoD and now Legion. People over-exaggerate on both ends.
3. You cannot measure your performance with out it. You can determine if you succeeded or not, but measurement you cannot do.
4. I want people to understand their own DPS, and I want (for myself and for others) to see how DPS changes as (myself/others) adjust their rotations with given mechanics

Personally, I think a personal parser would do more harm than good. However, I think a group parser would be overall better for both the community and my personal enjoyment of the game.

What problem do you think I perceive is happening? It's hard for me to answer the question when I don't know what you're talking about. The problem is that I cannot measure my performance, this would enable me to measure my performance.

Last sentence, not sure what you mean. Why would only I be able to see it? That said, I mean my raid team specifically - I do very little other content in this game. (Naturally this is just me personally, and I still think that a group parser would be better overall for the game and community as a whole).

[BraveheartRamo]

I believe that the entire idea of SSS introduced to test dps check for each raid. Players could pass it but fail with the crazy mechanics in the actual raid. It would be nice to have a complete new system within SSS similar to the hall of novice. Engage to a certain trial and be familiarized while training on mechanics. It can never be easy to fetch for a learning party nor it is while using raid finder. Forming a static party can be a challenge considering, game servers, time zones and certain preferences for certain groups selections.