Why is Yoshi P turning his back on the playerbase that loves this game the most?

[HungryHippo]

While I agree, 6 months of the same raid content is tiring, I would debate that XI had more endgame though

Actually an expansion pack(treasure of something) had a lot more content that was viable and worth for a damn long time than whole HW had included patches. I might be wrong on this one, but I remember someone comparing. Again I don't want this game to be another XI. But it's also the fact I don't think it ever could be like it either.

If there was no LS event I could screw off and do lets say 7 man Jormugand, 6 man hydra or 5 man. I could do stuff that could give me my type of entertainment(I'm saying this because not everyone likes the same type of stuff). While I obtain fun plus rewards I like. Think of this way, we have a lot of different content in this game but the lack of fighting content is there, a huge lack. Never force people to do gathering when some people don't even like it. The most ironic thing is few people on these forum say there is so much to do, yet they barely done anything and then say in another thread gathering is boring, then tells people to do it. /Mindblown.

[SwdVengeance]

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I just don't agree. While the tools you need to kill the boss are a goal, they aren't the ultimate goal. I never said killing the boss was the only goal either, I recognize that gear is a reward as well, however always secondary to the bosses. If gear was the point, there would be ultimately no need for the boss, because the goal could be obtained without it. No matter what path you take to get gear in this game, it requires killing bosses to obtain with the minor exception to crafted gear which provides it's own form of endgame.


To you're point of 'value', it's seems a highly flawed argument. Does one, upon graduating college suddenly feel completely high school sad? Does one find completing a marathon suddenly feel at a loss that they did a half marathon the previous year? Over time people are going to progress past challenges, and old ones will become less of a challenge because of what's gained. This problem is more complex when speaking about persistent video games, as not everything that trivializes a previous challenge is under the control of the player. This is where I feel most suddenly find loss when a previous challenge is lessened by something external to themselves. However, the feeling isn't wholly justified. The challenge was still present when they accomplished it, they still triumphed over it, and they gained something for having done it. By taking away the challenge, they don't ever take away your accomplishment. This disconnect people have with the idea that, just because a certain challenge is easier now, it somehow minimalism their accomplished baffles me a bit. The original experience is, for the most part in XIV, perfectly repeatable on almost every fight there is, via level sync/limiting your own gear. While it may not be the case with you, this is the main hinging point I feel for where people start to feel less power as a character because accessibility to accomplishing something they did, increases. The more people that accomplish something, the less powerful one feels, now matter if the challenge remains the same between the two.

At the core, this disagreement goes beyond FFXIV to apply to just about any and all video games. At what point does someone desire to replay something? If all rewards for accomplishing a game are stripped upon subsequent playthroughs, what's the point? If rewards aren't stripped away, but only the difficulty changes with no new rewards, why do it? I would again contest, it's the bosses/fights. You play the game to, well, 'play' the game. Gear only modifies you're playing, doesn't define it, the challenges you face do. Gear growth and item scaling aren't the core issue of why people stop playing or the loss of value of what one accomplishes. It's the mindset that those rewards are ultimately a definition of your characters, and in turn, your power/growth and should something outside yourself change that, you've been stripped of something.

Actually an expansion pack(treasure of something) had a lot more content that was viable and worth for a damn long time than whole HW had included patches.

Admittedly, Treasures was when I stopped playing so I can't speak from experience. However, that was the first North American based expansion they gave us, which was 3 whole years past the original launch. Content added between launch and that expansion was scarce at best. We had tons of it, but if you had seen it all you never got more. I haven't gone back and counted it all, but I would argue the amount of content we get total in XIV is about equivalent to XI during the lifespan of an expansion. Granted, I have no idea how the landscape changed after Aht expansion in XI.

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I wouldn't be against seeing something like this, perhaps in it's own section of content. Not really XI type encounters, but XIV designed encounters with an air of randomness to them. Though there was a reason I believe this wasn't revisited, at least in XI, there were fights where you were basically screwed should the boss decide to throw two of something at you back to back. Rng isn't often spoken well of from my experience. While I know, and empathize with your feelings about muscle memory bosses, the alternative isn't without large issues. I can see a portion of the community being extremely upset at this as it's impossible to gain perfect efficiently on due to the randomness.

[HungryHippo]

XI had 2 expansion in 3 years. Yes the game Came out later in na and EU but they were fast

[SwdVengeance]

XI had 2 expansion in 3 years. Yes the game Came out later in na and EU but they were fast

Ok, I forgot about Chains in 2004. After doing some googling to refresh the memory, I stand corrected. Though I would debate the amount of content released within that expansion was more significant than a numbered patch cycle.

[Reynhart]

At the core, this disagreement goes beyond FFXIV to apply to just about any and all video games.

XIV being an MMO is a little different. I payed XIII once to be able to play anytime I want, and it took me around 100 hours to complete.
XIV asks me to pay every month, and my playtime is around 250 days. Any system will be boring after 200+ days of doing approximatively the same thing over and over.

And when Yoshida said that it's totally ok to play something else, I'm sure he meant "Just play a few hours per week and the game will always have something fresh...but please, continue your subscription fee". Sorry, but it bothers me to pay each month for that.

The sad part is that Final Fantasy was especially famous for trying new things over and over, and not resting on the same gameplay element over the years. Nowadays, any kind of innovation will be met with serious fear and distrust.

[SwdVengeance]

XIV being an MMO is a little different.

Oh, absolutely, I don't disagree. There's a line at which replaying similar or the same content isn't fun. People seem to think though that the game is somehow bad or flawed, that after doing something a dozen times, having fun with it, it suddenly because tiresome and a slog. People need to be ok with saying, "I'm tired of this, I won't do it anymore". That's not to say I'm excusing content that is lackluster and doesn't have some staying power, but as you said, after 200 days, it will be boring. Yoshi isn't holding you hostage though, you're more than welcome to not pay and not play. I don't mean to sound snide saying that. Oft times I think people's expectations of MMOs is to keep them entertained continuously and definitively. Stopping to play something else is perfectly, and imo absolutely, necessary to continuing to care about any persistent game. Taking breaks for months seems a natural course when you run yourself dry.

And while I understand where you're coming from, projecting on Yoshi doesn't really help your argument.

[Reynhart]

And while I understand where you're coming from, projecting on Yoshi doesn't really help your argument.

This is the problem I have with latests interviews.
Yoshi-P said several time that he's okay with us playing other games. This is not normal. He's a producer, he has a product to sell on us. You can't make a publicity campaign saying "Oh, by the way, it's not a big deal if you don't buy our product, you can go buy our competitor's instead"
The other part is that every time someone asked for something different than the current formula, he replied that the formula is good because we would complain if we had less. Of course we'll be pissed if you give us less content...

But would that work in an MMO? I mean it would work for you definitely, otherwise you wouldn't be suggesting it, but still.

I'm sure you can have a lot of different system working in an MMO. FFXI changed its gearing system a lot during its lifespan. WoW did too.

it's very relevant when a big majority of beginner players are still here. Take a look at the data sometime

Please, give me numbers.

[SwdVengeance]

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He's not trying saying to not buy their product, just buy it and something else. If anything this is one of the most realistic and grounded comments I've seen from any MMO developer. Not only is he aware of burnout, but also that those who are aware of it before it hits home, curbs it by playing something else, are often the ones that come back re-enthused about the game.

[Reynhart]

Not only is he aware of burnout, but also that those who are aware of it before it hits home, curbs it by playing something else, are often the ones that come back re-enthused about the game.

He's aware of the burnout, of the reason of the burnout...and he says that he won't make anything to change it.
Basically, if you're bored with the tome system, the rapid gear decay and the predictability of content in each patch, you know that it will only be worse and worse.

And people are suprised because some find this reaction...innapropriate ?

[Clover_Blake]

Yoshi-P said several time that he's okay with us playing other games. This is not normal. He's a producer, he has a product to sell on us. You can't make a publicity campaign saying "Oh, by the way, it's not a big deal if you don't buy our product, you can go buy our competitor's instead"

That reveals that he's very down to earth. It's been said before: there isn't a single game in the world that can keep you entertained for every single day of the year, 24/7. First, because it's not possible to make that much content (unless you just give people tons of mindless, boring grind), and second because it's normal to get tired and need a break from time to time. Every developer should know that their game can't be played forever and ever. They should also know that people have lives, and that having lives is good.

The problem is that some players seem to truly expect a single game to keep their attention forever, every day of their lives, and that's an absurd mistake and not the devs' fault. (Neither it's the devs' fault that said players don't seem to know how to have fun with the things we do have).

As for the OP, I join the group of people who aren't pleased about the way you worded things. I love this game, it hasn't turned its back on me; quite the contrary, this game saved me from completely hating online games after my past experiences. Please do not speak for me or for anyone else when you voice your personal tastes and complaints. It's getting really tiring.