Problems with the strength of gear coming from easy mode Alexander

[Tint]

So the problem is, then, that there's "too much content and too often". Basically, what I said earlier; you'd rather get super good gear once and then not have any reason to touch the game in a long time O_O

you have understand nothing.

the best in slot gear is ilvl 240. that's the gear from alex savage turn 5 to 8. raiders could farm these gear, that would get raiders something to do for weeks: farming the BiS gear and preparing for the next raid tier. BUT when they release the next raid tier, they also release craftet ilvl 250 gear. this gear is in any case superior to the old BiS gear. so there is no point in farming the BiS raidgear, because on patchday all raiders get the new ilvl 250 gear and throwing their ilvl 240 gear away.

[Balipu]

But, considering that new raids (which require a higher ilv) will come in few months, why would people stop caring for their gear in the current patch? Wouldn't they want to obtain the best gear just to be ready for the next challenge?

What's more, glamour or items you simply use for showing off purposes are important for most players in every game I've seen. Exclusive items that prove that you've done this or that content are a must, and this game has them.

Hardcore raiders are a bit like Mandalorians. When rats eat the food in a Mandalorian settlement, they don't kill the rats cause they are weak vermin that don't provide much sport. Of course they starve to death cause all their food is gone, but at least they are true warriors.
People who can and actually do clear Savage raids, do not want to spend too much time doing dungeons and hard mode trials, because those are too easy. Considering they have the highest item level possible, this is not a surprise.

If I understand correctly, what they don't like is the fact that you can get gear just as good as the top raid gear from tomestones when the next patch comes. And tomestones can be farmed by doing non-raid content.
What they want is for gear from Savage raids to remain the very best gear you can get, for a longer period of time. Guessing that would mean half a year cause every second content patch comes with a new Savage raid. They want something with more practical uses than titles and pets to show for clearing what is at that time, the hardest content in the game.
Of course the way I see it, making raids in general and savage in particular, harder would work just as well. Darnus still isn't a faceroll even with an undersized party cause the meteor phase can still wipe you like five different times if you don't pay attention. Even on normal. Making savage truly savage would make sure the reward stays exclusive, whatever it may be.

[Tint]

If I understand correctly [...]

no, you also don't understand it.

the problem is not that people can get gear with the SAME ilvl as the raid gear, the problem is people (including the raiders themself) can get gear with a BETTER ilvl than the raid gear right on patchday.

this makes farming the raid for gear useless.

[Brian_]

How would you balance what crafters and gatherers make then so to keep the time and effort it takes to create crafted items reasonably rewarding? As of now the new materia set up means that overmelding is only useful if a crafter's products are potent enough to actually be worth using at some point. Considering the cost and time investment it takes to get to the point were you can actually craft those items, crafters should be able to create items of worthwhile value.

I would also say that if its so easy to get Savage raid gear on the first day of the patch it rather undermines the value of the last teir of Savage gear anyway.

I am a fully melded and geared omnicrafter with enough gil to live off of until maybe 6.0. Even without crafting a single piece of combat gear, you can make a fortune. Release more glamour gear, housing items, minions, bardings, maybe even mounts, rare orchestrion rolls that require more varied materials outside of the faded roll, etc. Maybe actually do something new and interesting with crafters like giving them the ability to contribute to Idyllshire's reconstruction by turning in 3 and 4 star crafts. As a reward, they can be given special status, get immortalized on a plaque of contributors, get special access to certain parts of town and maybe get early access to future housing, etc. If you really want to release crafted combat gear, release combat gear equivalent to un-upgraded tomestone gear @3.5 with 5 guaranteed meld slots so that when it's fully melded with grade Vs, it can situationally out-class Savage gear and give people flexibility with their BiS set-ups. It'll actually help mid-core groups still struggling with progression and will still be relevant to HC raiders pushing for higher fflogs rankings.

There are so many ways to keep crafting desirable without throwing raiders under the bus. If you want to challenge for world first, you either need to be filthy rich or have multiple omnicrafters backing you. Even if you are in the tier below and just want to push earlier progression, you still dump a small fortune on gear. That's just stupid.

[Belhi]

I am a fully melded and geared omnicrafter with enough gil to live off of until maybe 6.0. Even without crafting a single piece of combat gear, you can make a fortune. Release more glamour gear, housing items, minions, bardings, maybe even mounts, rare orchestrion rolls that require more varied materials outside of the faded roll, etc. Maybe actually do something new and interesting with crafters like giving them the ability to contribute to Idyllshire's reconstruction by turning in 3 and 4 star crafts. As a reward, they can be given special status, get immortalized on a plaque of contributors, get special access to certain parts of town and maybe get early access to future housing, etc. If you really want to release crafted combat gear, release combat gear equivalent to un-upgraded tomestone gear @3.5 with 5 guaranteed meld slots so that when it's fully melded with grade Vs, it can situationally out-class Savage gear and give people flexibility with their BiS set-ups. It'll actually help mid-core groups still struggling with progression and will still be relevant to HC raiders pushing for higher fflogs rankings.

There are so many ways to keep crafting desirable without throwing raiders under the bus. If you want to challenge for world first, you either need to be filthy rich or have multiple omnicrafters backing you. Even if you are in the tier below and just want to push earlier progression, you still dump a small fortune on gear. That's just stupid.

All good ideas. I am not outright disagreeing with you. I am merely pointing out that there is more to this than just one moving part. Changing one thing is going to require adaptation elsewhere. You can make a fortune of crafting as I myself can attest. My main point is that if you are going to remove an aspect of the reward structure from another part of the game, it needs to be adjusted for, particularly with 8 different crafts to be taken into account. It's not as simple as just dropping ilvl, particularly when a lot of crafted items are becoming available from things like the Aquapolis and apparently the new Wondrous Tales.

[Clover_Blake]

the problem is not that people can get gear with the SAME ilvl as the raid gear, the problem is people (including the raiders themself) can get gear with a BETTER ilvl than the raid gear right on patchday.

this makes farming the raid for gear useless.

Um, I see, so the problem is about this case in particular, of 3.4 crafted gear being too powerful. I thought it was a general complaint of how the current ilv gear doesn't last "much" (not like half a year is little time though).

In any case, is it really that easy for a whole static to obtain full crafted i250 sets the very first day? I still find i240 relevant, for it's the best way to farm for the new i250 sets outside of spending a huge fortune that not everyone possess, as well as doing the new EX primal. Replacing the 240 the first day or in a few weeks won't change the fact that this set must still be replaced in 3.4, nor does it change the fact that the previous Savage items have been exclusive and a "status symbol" for half a year, and so will the new ones even if those, too, will be replaced someday. Just my opinion, though, that maybe things aren't as bad as they seem.

[Tint]

the point is the replacement of the gear before you even start with the new raid. back in 2.x people have farmend coil to get the BiS gear to have an advantage in the new raid tier. they have even farmed the gear after the new raid tier was released.

of course the gear will be replaced someday. but in the case of the savage gear they replace it before it even comes to use.

[Androir]

Isnt the weekly lock enough punishment for progress raids already? Is there a need for punishing players again with bad rewards?
Or is it on the ones whcih are wanting to be superior and dont like othres to keeping up?

[Brannigan]

the previous Savage items have been exclusive and a "status symbol" for half a year

That's the thing. I don't want to waste my time farming every week for a status symbol and some shitty dye patterns. I don't want to throw money away melding that gear for a status symbol. I want to use that gear on the next thing. I don't care if welfare gear catches people up to me instantly even though it took hundreds of wipes to clear the content. I just want to actually use the gear I earned without purposefully gimping myself, which is what you're doing if you don't get the crafted gear.

Yes, groups will enter and clear with their old gear, but if you're not going for a win within a few hours of the server uptime then you're just making things harder for yourself for no reason by doing that.

[LunaFaye]

you have understand nothing.

the best in slot gear is ilvl 240. that's the gear from alex savage turn 5 to 8. raiders could farm these gear, that would get raiders something to do for weeks: farming the BiS gear and preparing for the next raid tier. BUT when they release the next raid tier, they also release craftet ilvl 250 gear. this gear is in any case superior to the old BiS gear. so there is no point in farming the BiS raidgear, because on patchday all raiders get the new ilvl 250 gear and throwing their ilvl 240 gear away.

You don't understand the concept either, but I don't blame you because somehow with patch 2.4 people threw the meaning of actual BiS (BEST in slot) out of the window and adapted of calling everything with an higher ilvl - BiS.
Therefore I can understand why you are complaining about the ilvl 250 gear are being made available to everyone after the servers go back online.

Now actual raiders don't care, because the mix and match of the actual gear sets, still outweigh the stats on the ilvl 250 gear. Sure there will be sets, just like in every other patch, that gives 1 or 2 classes the ability to go unsub since all they have to do is buying the crafted gear and meld it and wait for their team mates to catch up.

However it's not for every class like that and all it does, is giving people that haven't played the "old" raids the opportunity of jumping right into the patch cycle, buy gear, run the new dungeons/raid for better gear. For the "real" raider it doesn't matter if your 7 neighbors got their gear from the market board or farmed that gear, the gear becomes outdated the moment you set foot into the new raid content. If you are one of the people that actually farmed their gear prior, you won't have to bother of even getting the ilvl 250 crafted gear and can focus on other stuff.

You see the difference in raiders that don't stress about the patch and "raiders" that seem to care about an ilvl raise due to crafted gear on patch day?