Yoshi-P on Character Growth

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

HW a failure?

From the population perspective, as i stated, it was. The coming months after launch of 3.0 probably saw the biggest population drop of this game history since the servers went down for 1.0... 3.1 did nothing to help either, and after that, the natural decline of players after the first month of each patch has been increasingly deeper each time. This game, is strugling to keep players playing for the entirety of the patch cycles. It has become a natural thing to hear "im taking a month or two, or even a patch of break". And when the director of the project also supports that, it means that something is fundamentally wrong with the game design.

[Kaurie]

I consider myself "midcore" (I mean, I spend 24/7 playing FFXIV, but I don't do the latest raids because I lack a group to do so) and I have a lot of fun. The game does have long term goals and items that only the most dedicated players can obtain.
I haven't read your suggestions, however, but are you genuinely under the impression that this game offers very little to do? O_O
They keep adding different ideas update after update; you simply can't expect a single system to last forever, and that's why they keep adding new things!

I have that general impression. The content that is added feels fairly unrewarding in both physical rewards and intrinsic rewards (i.e. fun). 3

The issue with their new things, is they are almost all flops. The design team needs to consider how to make something fun, before considering how to make it last.

not at all, yoshi p can't stop players from choosing to play way over the limit he has in mind for players to play. so the only thing he can advise people to do is take a break.

if he changes from the idea of only needing to play a certain amount of time the players he is choosing to cater to (them) will leave the game and not come back and for what? the smaller group that would play a game like what you are wanting? if you are against the idea that is fine but that doesn't mean your opinion becomes so fact about the death of ff14.

also the census is a fake census i have been through this once i can make a fake pie graph if you would like to show how everyone is playing ff14. (it wouldn't be true but then i would have fake data to use also)



this picture shows how the subs are going since release (as you can see it's only up)

Nice chart :P

The census is not "fake". They data mine (a real thing) to find achievement data for all the servers, and compile it to discover how many characters have done X achievement. They use this to see who has completed steps of the story, and to see who is actively logging in. This is actually fairly accurate data (albeit inflated).

It has shown a trend of going upwards and then downwards. The numbers are not very concerning however. I don't feel like pulling up every census, but the numbers went something like... 2 years ago 600k, 1.5 years ago 700k, 1 year ago 750k, 6 months ago 6.5k, a month ago 600k. There was clearly a jump that occurred with the expansion, and it then dropped back down again. That is to be expected.

[Musashidon]

The census is not "fake".

actually it is, you can pretend all you want the info on the census means anything but it doesn't.

until se gives us real sub numbers they are all fake numbers.

[Chalbee]

One of the common threads of dissent on the forums seems to be the gear system, and I understand wanting options, or having BiS gear to be spread across content. But do you really want a game were BiS itself is based on the fight, and you need to have 2 or 3 meaningfully different "BiS" options to work with? That seems exhausting!

[Alexander_Dragonfang]

but people play plenty after 1 month it's players who burn out who is truely effectly (players like you, bass on and other on the forums) then you have the group of players who never stick to one game anyways and will always be coming back for first week and leaving afterwards.

Oh, so now you know how much i play and how do i play?

Im one of the people who burn through content and left after a month or so? I didn't knew that, i guess i need to tell my FC that i really wasnt playing all this time, just the first months of each patch.

....

actually it is, you can pretend all you want the info on the census means anything but it doesn't.

until se gives us real sub numbers they are all fake numbers.

SE is all that there is good. Player information is evil. Yoshida deliver us from sin.

You sound extremely fanatic, players have been trying to come up with information about the servers, there are servers which right now, are struggling for the lack of active players, but since SE hasn't (and spoiler alert: will never) give us real numbers, then its all an ilusion.

BTW, that SE give us numbers, not that they will ever, but even if they were to give us numbers, they could also be fake, in fact, they have much more reasons to give us fake numbers than our fellow community players. We want to know the truth of what is the real status of the game, SE will want to hide that truth if isn't what they want to show to the rest of the world or would alter it (inflate numbers) to do publicity with it. So i think community efforts to come up with censuses are much more legit than anything SE will ever give us.

[bass9020]

but people play plenty after 1 month it's players who burn out who is truely effectly (players like you, bass on and other on the forums) then you have the group of players who never stick to one game anyways and will always be coming back for first week and leaving afterwards.

Ive never once was burnt out from doing content so please down speak for me. This game just doesn't offer any substance and now I've really grasped that with the past couple interviews. I just play for the story and side quest chains now.

[Nalien]

I haven't read your suggestions, however, but are you genuinely under the impression that this game offers very little to do? O_O

It has lots to do, just no real reason to do any of it... Most of the reasons are very temporary... Once I've done Binding Coil and seen the story, what reason do I have to go back? After I've got my bird drop, what reason do I have to do Ravana (EX)? The best SE has come up with is new crafting recipes (but I'm swimming in Gil without even trying because of ridiculous things like the Challenge Log and Aquapolis) and Wondrous Tails... Wondrous Tails I look forward to, but it's still only 9 pieces of content a week for rewards I perhaps don't even care for... Need to see how it turns out for now... Even new content ends up suffering from this... Just because of how item level is handled, I've simply stopped caring about it... I'll do stuff I enjoy, but ultimately that's not going to retain my interest for long... I'm not going to grind Sophia, for example... Why would I? I've completely stopped caring about item level these days, it means nothing and pretty much does nothing, what with how easy 95% of the game is...

What I want is a solid reason to do all the content the game has to offer... That's why I enjoy the Zodiac weapons grind these days, it offers solid reasons to do specific content... I upgrade those weapons and I feel like I'm on a reasonably entertaining quest... The reward though... That's where this game keeps falling apart... "Glamour is the true endgame", that saying is very accurate, and I just don't like glamours... I don't like adjusting the look of the weapon I'm using... I like Balmung, I want to use Balmung... Instead I'm using something completely different and just adjusting it to look like Balmung... That's why I suggested replacing character progression with gear progression... Let me level up Balmung, by doing all sorts of content, to a current item level... I'd find that enjoyable, and does it negatively impact new players? They'd still be able to sight up next week and get i250 around the same time as me...

The content itself is also slightly problematic though... Hunts I think are utter garbage, as is Diadem... Palace of the Dead is OK, but it's still wasting a great deal of potential IMO... Even Trials and the like, while usually very visually interesting (and dat music never disappoints), are ultimately getting on my nerves... Another square/circular arena? Snore... Steps of Faith, before it was nerfed, was perhaps my favorite Trial, just because of how different it was and how it successfully created a tense atmosphere that sadly can't really be experienced these days... All the Primal fights have no weight to them, but Steps of Faith did... Sigh... This is going to turn into a Hamlet Defense rant if I'm not careful... Besieged was so damn perfect, why did Yoshida downgrade Hamlet Defense to FATEs instead of upgrading it to surpass Besieged? T_T

And let's face it, creating content takes time and it's not easy. Devs can't make new content every week of the year. The only super long term content that can be given is grind and more grind, and not everyone is into that.

All the more reason to make it last, no? How much time and money went into producing Binding Coil? What's the point of it these days? That has been a longstanding issue I've had with the whole "themepark" approach to MMO development... It's ultimately wasteful... No where is this more apparent than with PvP... Go over to those forums, you'll find no shortage of people who want Seize or Secure to be relevant again, but SE is making the most themepark MMO possible, the decommission old rides and replace them with new ones, and Shatter is kinda crap... I really end up loathing this kind of approach to content when stuff like that happens...

Yes, what I'm suggesting is ultimately a grind, and not everyone is into that, but... So what? If you don't want to grind, don't... If I undertake a long grind to upgrade my Balmung to Lv60 and to a current item level, by doing all the content between 2.1 and 3.4... How does that impact you? If you don't want that kind of grind, just get the current item level weapon through whatever system suits you...

I mean really, with the way progression works in this game... They've set themselves up to fail, at least IMO... They need to churn out new content patch after patch, because simply none of it lasts particularly long... Christ, the final stage of the Void Ark raid isn't even announced yet, and it's already dead in the water IMO... Item level progression is just too predictable, and ultimately just has no impact... 3.4 isn't out yet, and I already don't care about i250+, why the hell will I care about the rewards from the next 24 man raid with that in mind? Item level doesn't give me any sense of character progression anymore, the only thing that does is the Relic quests, and the Anima quest is just really really bad IMO...

It takes them time and money to produce this stuff, and it just goes to waste IMO... I really wish they'd provide a solid purpose to all this stuff, even if it's just an optional grind I can put myself through...

[Musashidon]

Oh, so now you know how much i play and how do i play?

Im one of the people who burn through content and left after a month or so? I didn't knew that, i guess i need to tell my FC that i really wasnt playing all this time, just the first months of each patch.

....

Ive never once was burnt out from doing content so please down speak for me. This game just doesn't offer any substance and now I've really grasped that with the past couple interviews. I just play for the story and side quest chains now.

i don't need to know how much you play as you are against the idea of taking a break which is the whole point it doesn't matter if you play the whole time you are in the group of *against taking breaks* so you are part of that group. you can't be against the idea of taking a break but go wait a minute i am not with them!

So i think community efforts to come up with censuses are much more legit than anything SE will ever give us.

what you think doesn't make it true.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

The problem with "lasting content" is by definition, it needs to last, a long time.

How do you do this?

A few options. Low drop rates (annoying, IE atmas which everyone hated with a passion) ok, so thats out.

How about gear longevity? Ok, so we have all this gear that is pretty good,a nd you just spent month acquiring it. we have a new patch releasing with gear of similar stats and lvl. you dont really need this gear to do anything (aka, diadem 3.4 gear, which everyone says will be DOA)

so now you have good gear you took months getting, and the new gear they are adding doesnt really add much to your character, so why bother?

Oh, but it has stats that are good for X fight they added! but isnt that the same as just upgrading gear with each patch? "but thats not HORIZONTAL Progression, we want to have gear for different fights that takes months to get that we can keep using"

But then you reach a saturation point where they can no longer just make gear different without increasing your stats, and then you run out of growth, and start all over with new gear of a higher level that will just replace the old gear entirely, only it took you months to get said gear, and now it will take more months to replace it.

but now they have to create the same-ish content for the new gear to be useful for, and the old content becomes outdated.

Its basically the same cycle with varying time requirements that just makes no sense really.

[OliviaJ]

Eh, I'm one of the silent few I guess. Perfectly happy with the progression of the game and I'm never bored. As he stated, I'm one of those that doesn't have the time for something like XI anymore. There are certainly aspects that I miss. This game fits my current lifestyle though so I continue to play daily for a few hours at most. Not unsubbing any time soon.