war nerfs(srs bznz pls)

[Launched]

That, I don't understand. AFAIK, WAR is the only job to have the loophole of increasing Attack Power instead of damage, which allow it to buff its healing.

PLD's Clemency is affected by Convalescence, which is 30% on PLD, so they can buff their own healing.

[ArdorGrey]

PLD's Clemency is affected by Convalescence, which is 30% on PLD, so they can buff their own healing.

shhhh, people are busy making every excuse for why war should be nerfed!

[shao32]

snip

be carefoul they can nerf you to dealt with a 15% damage penalty, or worse a 20% without cant do nothing.

and sole survivor have the same situational as mercy stroke, with the diference mercy strike is a hit with a very hard chance to get the extra heal, and sole survivor dont have no damage but you get a huge reward, call it what you want, sole survivor work better that mercy stroke in terms of self heal.

and no sorry whe dont need make excuses nerf war, yoshi + devs say is op already.

[SyzzleSpark]

Why would they nerf WAR so close to 4.0?

The only thing we can safely assume is that they are going to buff the shit out of DRK and PLD. Which as I said before is still going to constitute a net-nerf for WAR relative to the other tanks. I.E. they're going to nerf it in the form of buffing it less.

[Exoxo]

be carefoul they can nerf you to dealt with a 15% damage penalty, or worse a 20% without cant do nothing.

and sole survivor have the same situational as mercy stroke, with the diference mercy strike is a hit with a very hard chance to get the extra heal, and sole survivor dont have no damage but you get a huge reward, call it what you want, sole survivor work better that mercy stroke in terms of self heal.

and no sorry whe dont need make excuses nerf war, yoshi + devs say is op already.

You understand War naturally has the biggest damage penalty with Tank stance right? I think Unchained is warranted.
Neither Sole Survivor or Mercy Stroke are good self heal options, Mercy Stroke is a minor bonus and Sole Survivor is more often than not used for MP not HP.
Even if you want to compare the two together all that means is Drk has no equivalent to Clemency or Equilibrium (Please don't say Abyssal Drain) which again makes them lacking.

Yoshi also said they'd rather buff the other two than nerf War, in other words it's not OP the other two are just lacking.

[Duelle]

The 3 invincibility cooldowns are pretty balanced. Holmgang is up the most often, but it has the shortest duration, requires a target, roots you, and either requires you to pop 2+ cooldowns and tank stance to get a decent amount of HP back, or a healer just like Living Dead.

The drawbacks on Holmgang and Living Dead are actually pretty bad given that they're quintessential "Oh Shit" cooldowns. This is why I've suggested WAR get the invincibility removed from Holmgang and get an ability that doubles their max HP (which actually would be in line with WAR's theme and make more sense, because someone fighting in a holmgang is not going to be invincible and unable to die), and DRK get a damage shield that absorbs damage taken equal to their max HP and then take the accumulated damage over something like 12 or 15 seconds (which would give a lot more leeway both to the DRK and their healer).

Path mitigation? PLD has Halone and Divine Veil, which is actually really strong. It's currently a 2.8k shield on the group. DRK has Delirium and Reprisal, which copies Path's debuff and doesn't cost DPS to use.

Storm's Path can be applied within 3 GCDs, kept up indefinitely and is not limited by damage type. Divine Veil has a 2 minute cooldown. Reprisal has a 30 second cooldown and requires a parry proc (that you can't fully manipulate the way you can shield blocks).

Equilibrium? Why do PLD and DRK have skills that are completely useless for half (or more) of a fight? It's not WAR's fault that PLD has skill slots wasted on trash like Cover or Tempered Will, or that both of them have procs that requires them to get hit, or that DRK has so many slots wasted on skills that are purely for DPS. Why do they have Dark Arts if it's going to affect almost no skills?

Equilibrium's design points to it being used as a self heal while tanking, and TP recovery while not tanking (because as we've learned, off-tank TP upkeep is a concern). But since the players bastardized the design by making WAR tank in Deliverance (and forcing it on PLD and DRK despite neither being designed to do so), the mechanics surrounding WAR are all over the place.

In the end, the problem is that SE made DRK too similar to PLD so you never want to have them in the same group.

The problem is that the differences between the tanks are in the wrong places. PLD, DRK and WAR should have the same effective HP, similar DPS potential, and similar utility so that any combination of tanks would be capable of doing progression. The differences should be in how they mitigate damage and how it ties to their gameplay.

WAR not only offers group mitigation that can be kept up indefinitely and can be applied on all damage, but also deals higher damage. Both of these things are part of why WAR has a guaranteed raid spot.

There's so many ways they could be made unique so that any tank composition could work, but all people can focus on is that WAR actually does stuff different to the other two.

WAR is not exempt from changes. The adjustments should and will likely affect the whole tank roster.

[shao32]

First, DRK dont have equilibrium/clemency equivalent, its just obvious, compared sole survivor with those is...

Second

Q. Are youg going to touch them in the future?
Y. Not before the expansion and we aren't going to just snipe those two jobs. With the next expansion, we will balance all jobs as a whole including new actions to balance them out. Basically, we'd like to push the other jobs up there, but it's not as simple as buffing the other jobs will equal their strengths so we are still struggling. Systemly and having a pet is what makes it complicated, so we are trying to be careful.

So he is saying they go to snipe WAR and SCH plus balance the rest in the expansion in they plans to make all rotations to 2.x level, and they cant just simple buff everything to WAR/SCH level, because you cant buff every job every time one get over the others, why then BRD get nerfed several times in 2.0? Why holy and flare get nerfed and not just simple buff sumoner? why they dont just buff DRG and MNK when ninja was op in the release?

WAR is over on utility, so lets check that, best personal dps utility, with is fine after all is the OT dps, best raid mitigation utility ergo storm path calling for some THE HUGE DPS LOSS ofering a neat 10% damage reduction to all and core to mitigate tank busters if you are MT, best damage utility storm eye(trick attack is the first but now comparing to tanks) buffing tank damage and ninja damage, best self neutral mitigation plus self heals utility, is funny how the defensive tanks here master phisical and master magic need more heals that WAR in every scenario.

Is not DRK and PLD are lacking, bcs the jobs are balance and work as intented clearing without any problem every conten, they are not behind, is WAR how pass the limit.

[Exoxo]

The problem is that the differences between the tanks are in the wrong places. PLD, DRK and WAR should have the same effective HP, similar DPS potential, and similar utility so that any combination of tanks would be capable of doing progression. The differences should be in how they mitigate damage and how it ties to their gameplay.

Let's not do that, we're struggling enough with individuality, I'd rather not have 3 clones with slight variation.

[Lambdafish]

Do you understand the damage lost from entering Defiance?

Making up the hp difference from entering it cost an additional cd, you are now stuck in it for 10s doing ~30% less damage.
-5% for leaving Deliverance.
-25% for being in Defiance.
Reduced Crit rate and the inability to use Fell Cleave over IB which is a 200 potency difference.
If you Unchain instead of IB, what are you mitigating?

It costs a lot to be that tanky, it most certainly is not the best of both worlds, it's one or the other.

Ok lets discuss this by comparing both skills directly (they arent all that different)

Defiance:
- Increases Maximum HP by 25%
- Decreases damage dealt by 25% and increases enmity
- Increases healing magic by 20%

Shield Oath:
- Reduces damage received by 20%
- Reduces damage dealt by 15% and increases enmity (remember that WARs damage is innately better than PLDs)

The HP/healing increase and damage reduction essentially do the same thing, with the difference being how much the HP bar moves about, and even with the extra damage loss a WAR would still deal as much/more damage than a PLD in tank stance, without taking into consideration Unchained (which we should be). You mention that using unchained means you can't IB, however that is not an excuse, as the skill still exists, and if you have infuriate up you can use both. No matter what way you look at it, the WARs overall combo makes Defiance a better stance to be in than Shield oath, and yet it also gets the perk of oGCD and no cost to enter (This was completely fine before deliverance existed as the best you could do was turn the stance off, now the stances are not far off PLD, except they are better for some reason).

I won't even both comparing Deliverance and Sword Oath.

Also your complaint about "if you are in defiance you lose all that crit and can't fell cleave".... are you serious?

[SyzzleSpark]

WAR only has flaws when its convenient for it to have flaws...

*runs*