war nerfs(srs bznz pls)

[Launched]

stuff

Vengeance vs Sentinel was fine in ARR. 40% 180s vs 30% 120s. Shadow Wall is bad (like a lot of DRK's skillset) because it's just a copy of something PLD has but slightly different (no trait).
The 3 invincibility cooldowns are pretty balanced. Holmgang is up the most often, but it has the shortest duration, requires a target, roots you, and either requires you to pop 2+ cooldowns and tank stance to get a decent amount of HP back, or a healer just like Living Dead.

Butcher's Block+Storm's Path damage? WAR loses DPS to apply its mitigation, PLD+DRK lose damage to generate more enmity. Path's healing is completely irrelevant outside of soloing level 50 content, it barely equals a Regen tick in Deliverance with a crit or Berserk. I don't really see a problem there.

Path mitigation? PLD has Halone and Divine Veil, which is actually really strong. It's currently a 2.8k shield on the group. DRK has Delirium and Reprisal, which copies Path's debuff and doesn't cost DPS to use.

Equilibrium? Why do PLD and DRK have skills that are completely useless for half (or more) of a fight? It's not WAR's fault that PLD has skill slots wasted on trash like Cover or Tempered Will, or that both of them have procs that requires them to get hit, or that DRK has so many slots wasted on skills that are purely for DPS. Why do they have Dark Arts if it's going to affect almost no skills?

Defiance/Deliverance and their skills? PLD gets access to all their skills in either stance, DRK loses Blood Weapon (which is stupid) and Souleater's heal. WAR loses its main mitigation skill and a big part of its DPS rotation depending on stance.

In the end, the problem is that SE made DRK too similar to PLD so you never want to have them in the same group. There's so many ways they could be made unique so that any tank composition could work, but all people can focus on is that WAR actually does stuff different to the other two.

[shao32]

shadow wall is fine and work well, the problem come about what vengeance do, to much for a single skill and only 120 seconds, its more powerful that sentinel inself.

path can be use it in every escenario except when the boss can't be target and dealt a party aoe, in every moment, divine veil nop, divine veil can only use in those moments, so path wins in utility vs divine veil, vs delirium and reprisal is the same, war can keep it up every time he need it, DRK no, delirium is useles vs phisical and reprisal depend of parry, and path is not a OMG my dps is going down to the ground.

and equilibrium is OP in every way, the best short self heal of the game plus self tp recover, even many pro raiders WAR say is freaking op vs clemency ofering the same heal but the cast bar kill the chance to use it in MT, equilibrium have no weeknes.

tank stance are fine, is part of the job skill set, but the part of keep you stacks is, why? thats one of the most think i dont understand why they keep they stacks more when most of WAR skills give you 1, even the WAR trow a fart and take 1 stack, remove that can grant the trade off the job need apart of other some thinks, making infuriate a core usefull skill again.


and i dont want to talk why raw intuition exist.

[ADVSS]

totally agree with these poinrs, i dont really see them taking too much away from warrior cause they sort of dug this ditch to begin with, making drk too close to pld, then slapping dps moves and locking tank abilities behind a dps stance sounds sort of like they were trying to put some warrior traits onto t as well...and forgot to make them synergize very well at all. To me i dont really see them going back, not at this point, maybe if deliverance and defiance just granted non interchangable stacks, which had their own timers separate, probably lower fell cleaves potency or will make it harder to triple them(non interchangable stacks) but what really can they do at this point? Especially with talk of new abilities in the expansion. Is 3-5 new skills really going to bring the other two up, while giving warrior filler abilities?(and what would they be that wouldnt be icing to an already well decorated cake?)

[shao32]

nothing, yoshi-p say already they dont go to touch the weak balance they have now and to it all in 4.0

[Exoxo]

Why wouldn't 3-5 skills be enough? Look at Drg and Nin from 50-60, that many skills can make a big difference.
Those stack adjustments to War would kill their DPS (Fell Cleave is all they have) and severely cripple their ability to quickly mitigate incoming damage upon switching into Defiance.

The issues is not that War's skills are OP, the issue is the equivalent skills of the other two suck:

- Equilibrium isn't OP, no one wants to lose DPS casting Clemency(Pre-buff it was just useless trash) and Sole Survivor has always been a joke (you don't use it because it's good, you use it because it's all you have to work with).
- Vengeance isn't OP, Sentinel is appropriately stronger with a longer recast, Shadow Wall just pales in comparison.
- Since you always keep up Eye, using Path is a overall 40 potency loss vs Butcher's which is actually a lot, especially when you keep doing it.

[shao32]

infuriate and inner beast.

soul survior is a kill reward, is not even comparable with equilibrium and clemency, you can compare it with mercy stroke.

equilibrium is a 1200 self heal, scale with bersek and internal release to have the chance to recive even more every 60 seconds or 200 tp, making the job the only job how never run out of tp and in many case with they other skills dont need a healer.

no, vengeance is not op, but is of the 3º the most powerful is more use it to get a stack to really use it to mitigate to much utility in a single skill, and path is not a huge dps loss use it 1 time every 2 combos is 40-70 dps loss like much but we all know WAR dont need to keep it up all the time.

[Exoxo]

And watch the Wars DPS plummet from not getting the Fell Cleave that Infuriate grants it.

Except Drk also has Mercy Stroke and receives Sole Survivor when War and Pld receive Equil and Clemency. In other words, it's garbage.
Using Equil for HP would imply Defiance is on, which as I mentioned before is an absurd DPS loss, Drk has no TP issues whatsoever with the low cost of their combos and aoes being MP dependent.

Path is a huge dps loss no matter how you look at it, all your potency comes from GCDs since you have one oGCD, every other combo has to be Eye or your dps loss is even bigger: Eye > Butcher's > Path > Eye etc. should never happen.

War cannot use Inner Beast and Equil while Fell Cleaving, they can't be in both stances at once, you get one or the other. Being able to smoothly trade your DPS for being Tanky is the beauty of the class and should not be tampered with.

[shao32]

yeah idk if you play war, looks like yes, and you better that no one have know WAR stay in deliverance 90% of the time, trade to dps to tanky its not even close, WAR dont have tanky mode, have fell cleave or innerbeast, nothing more, defiance bonus is a joke and you can simulate that with thir of battle and convalescence, WAR only need to get in to defiance to grab agro at the begining and for very predictable tank busters, and you can use infuriate to have instant inner beast bcs they can survive everything with they shorts mitigations and get instan heals when the hit arrive with equilibrium bcs is so damm short, war dont lost dps bcs the only 2 seconds they stay in defiance they can use unchained, yeah that skills how was so usefull in the past.

path is a tank buster mitigation+aoe attack if you can, you dont sacrifice nothing bcs ppl only use it in those predictable moments for no say SCH shields are more powerful in WAR when they are mitigating in defiance.

and again sole survivor is not garbage, is not a equilibrium, is not a clemency, is not a skill designe to use a self heal every time you want, is a skill to get extra resources when you have adds in combats and multiple mobs pulls + a quick recover when the pull end.

[Reynhart]

equilibrium is a 1200 self heal, scale with bersek and internal release

That, I don't understand. AFAIK, WAR is the only job to have the loophole of increasing Attack Power instead of damage, which allow it to buff its healing.

[Exoxo]

You just said that most Wars aren't in Defiance then proceeded to list a bunch of Defiance only abilities to show why War is so good.
The 10s between switching is a good 4-5 GCDs coupled with the auto attacks all being lowered by Defiance's penalty
Unchained is still a DPS loss because you are not in Deliverance(5% Damage increase and Fell Cleave), if you are using Unchained then you didn't use Inner Beast meaning you aren't mitigating a thing.
If you are holding stacks to Unchain then Infuriate to Inner Beast you are losing multiple Fell Cleaves which is a massive DPS loss.
Path is a dps loss because it is a weaker combo, surely you understand this?

Sole Survivor is garbage, it's a highly situational skill with very little use, a 2min cd that's restricted by the fact that something has to die within the given time limit.
The fact that Drk doesn't have a reliable self heal at all when the other two tanks do makes it lacking in that regard.