Will Parry become worthwhile in the next patch?

[SpookyGhost]

Having blurted this absurd statement, I must challenge you to post a YouTube video of yourself running Level 60 dungeons with minimum iLevel gear and weapon.

Are you implying that makes secondary stats somehow more important in 4man content? Because it doesn't. You can clear min ilvl 60 dungeons with full Parry, full Crit, full whatever.

[Miitan]

OK, the game goes beyond 8-man end-game content. While the additional stats may not matter to YOU, they do matter to others. The game goes far beyond end-game and the core combat systems and stats should not be predicated on end-game. Quite the opposite.

What?

Either a stat matters or a stat doesn't matter and the main place that stats matter is in end-game 8-man content. Some stats are useless such as parry and to say that it might "matter to others" has no factual evidence behind it. This isn't glamour where a look can be considered better or worse depending on the viewer.

Also the idea that combat and stats should not be predicated on end-game goes against everything that currently exists in the game. You did not need to be in full i180 gear to beat Fractal Core. You did not need to be in full i240 gear to beat the latest Expert roulette dungeons. Sure, they make things go faster, but they weren't required in the slightest. Now Gordias Savage? You needed everything you could lay your hands on to meet the dps checks. Midas Savage? You still needed melded accessories if you were doing that at launch.

There is also nothing beyond endgame except the true endgame which is glamour. And stats don't matter for that.

[Kosmos992k]

What?

Either a stat matters or a stat doesn't matter and the main place that stats matter is in end-game 8-man content. Some stats are useless such as parry and to say that it might "matter to others" has no factual evidence behind it. This isn't glamour where a look can be considered better or worse depending on the viewer.

Also the idea that combat and stats should not be predicated on end-game goes against everything that currently exists in the game. You did not need to be in full i180 gear to beat Fractal Core. You did not need to be in full i240 gear to beat the latest Expert roulette dungeons. Sure, they make things go faster, but they weren't required in the slightest. Now Gordias Savage? You needed everything you could lay your hands on to meet the dps checks. Midas Savage? You still needed melded accessories if you were doing that at launch.

There is also nothing beyond endgame except the true endgame which is glamour. And stats don't matter for that.

Oh, well, i guess that if we aren't playing end game then we don't matter in your book. What an incredibly short sighted point of view. Posts like yours are why some plaYers consider end-game players to be elitist.

[SpookyGhost]

Oh, well, i guess that if we aren't playing end game then we don't matter in your book. What an incredibly short sighted point of view. Posts like yours are why some plaYers consider end-game players to be elitist.

Can you expand on what you mean? Because from what I'm gathering you think that they should balance secondary stats around leveling and... end game I guess should be then balanced around that? Would that mean boosting secondary stats to really high amounts on leveling gear so that each piece felt like it made an impact?

[Kosmos992k]

Can you expand on what you mean? Because from what I'm gathering you think that they should balance secondary stats around leveling and... end game I guess should be then balanced around that? Would that mean boosting secondary stats to really high amounts on leveling gear so that each piece felt like it made an impact?

Then you are gathering wrongly. I am objecting to the stated opinions that secondary stats only matter for end game. I am saying that the entire game and its combat system should not be predicated by end game. End-game should naturally flow from the game. When people say that secondary stats don't matter outside of current end-game, they are in effect dismissing the rest of the game as being irrelevent (doesn't matter). If that's not elitist and dismissive, what is?

Secondary stats should matter at all levels and their impact should be weighted by the level difference between player and enemy. So a high level player against a low level mob should parry (for example) a lot more than a low level layer. A low level player up against a high level enemy should parry less often and less effectively. So a stat like parry should alter the base chance to parry, and this in turn should be modified by the relative level if player to enemy. That makes the stat relevant in all types of content, and in effect it lets players be trained by levelling content to create a decent stat build at each tier of content.

You don't boost stats to stupid numbers, you weight them based on comparative levels during combat.

[Kotemon]

Parry is only semi functional when dealing with large trash groups due to the amount if incoming auto attacks. However the iffy proc rate and lack of a stat cap pretty much negates the possible damage reduction even in that scenario. Even if the proc rate is the same increasing the damage mitigation cap to 35% 45% might make it have more of an impact on damage reduction. However Paladin benefits the most from that. Assuming that content isn't tied to parry value in the way accuracy is. Because even on most current tank gear parry seems to be the bare minimum for the most.

They could add more ability procs or timer resets, (example: Shield Block procs Shield Swipe, then random Parry resets Shield Swipe. Either a boosted Dark Dance dodge or Low Blow randomly resets reprisal) Good for Dark and Paladin but Warrior is left out. If they add an auto counter attack based on the parry stat. Warrior would either gain the most among the three tanks in dps or Samurai would likely be a tank similar to a Warrior+Dark. Either way like others have said they are looking at it, so we'll know when there's a live letter going over new things in 4.0.

[SpookyGhost]

Then you are gathering wrongly. I am objecting to the stated opinions that secondary stats only matter for end game. I am saying that the entire game and its combat system should not be predicated by end game. End-game should naturally flow from the game. When people say that secondary stats don't matter outside of current end-game, they are in effect dismissing the rest of the game as being irrelevent (doesn't matter). If that's not elitist and dismissive, what is?

Alright, sorry for the misunderstanding. So your wording confused me a bit here, but I think (again, correct me if I'm wrong) you believe that secondary stats should matter while leveling up but currently do not. The reason I'm confused is I'm not entirely sure what you're objecting to specifically, and that's probably just ignorance on my part. Assuming I'm right here, I can agree with this, though it would require a lot of reworking of the system. The reason I brought up the absurd influx of secondary stat power for leveling up is that that's feasibly the only way any of the secondary stats could be relevant as they are in their current form. Right now there's basically no reason to pick and choose just as long as you're at an appropriate ilvl. As an example, if a piece of tank gear dropped for you in a dungeon and it was higher ilvl than your current one but had Parry on it, you'd still take it.

Secondary stats should matter at all levels and their impact should be weighted by the level difference between player and enemy. So a high level player against a low level mob should parry (for example) a lot more than a low level layer. A low level player up against a high level enemy should parry less often and less effectively. So a stat like parry should alter the base chance to parry, and this in turn should be modified by the relative level if player to enemy. That makes the stat relevant in all types of content, and in effect it lets players be trained by levelling content to create a decent stat build at each tier of content.

I'm not sure I follow here. Currently the Parry secondary stat does exactly what you describe - it increases your chance to Parry and that goes up linearly as you gain more Parry (might work in tiers, I forget the data on Parry since it's been so long since I've cared about it). However, it isn't modified based on the level difference between player and enemy... and I'm not sure why it would be. Like, I can't think of any situation where a high level player would be fighting low level mobs, and vice versa. I'm probably just missing something here, if you can clear up my confusion I'd really appreciate it.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

To be fair, Crit is also entirely RNG based, and yet it is the best possible secondary to stack for most jobs.

Critical hit is RNG based, but the secondary stat itself contributes directly to Strength, thereby increasing your damage. That is why Crit and Det are so valued.

Parry, as a secondary stat, is worthless to everyone because it's mitigation you cannot plan around. If I'm the main tank, I can't rely on parrying a tank buster because if RNG fails me, I'll likely die. AST had a similar issue when it first released; relying on heavy RNG. It largely saw little use in Gordias due to that same unreliability.

[LineageRazor]

I am objecting to the stated opinions that secondary stats only matter for end game. I am saying that the entire game and its combat system should not be predicated by end game.

What should be and what are are two different things. You are arguing with people that stats in this game matter before endgame (and you're being pretty abrasive about it, as well). But they don't. Perhaps they SHOULD matter, but the sad fact is that they currently do not. And this seems to be a big goal of the devs. Anytime stats start to matter in pre-endgame content, SE steps in and nerfs it, hard, such as when healers started to have accuracy difficulties in higher level dungeons.

As it stands, as long as you meet the ilvl requirements for a dungeon, you can win it. It might take longer, but it's certainly far from impossible.

Personally, I'd love to see stats take on a bigger role in more of the game, but as it is stats only start to make a win-or-lose difference once you start getting into endgame content. It's not realistic to expect the devs to shift gears on that stance, either; they've made it pretty clear that pre-endgame is ez-mode that even a player throwing on random bits of whatever cheap trash gear they can find would be able to finish.

Critical hit is RNG based, but the secondary stat itself contributes directly to Strength, thereby increasing your damage. That is why Crit and Det are so valued.

Parry, as a secondary stat, is worthless to everyone because it's mitigation you cannot plan around. If I'm the main tank, I can't rely on parrying a tank buster because if RNG fails me, I'll likely die. AST had a similar issue when it first released; relying on heavy RNG. It largely saw little use in Gordias due to that same unreliability.

Crit itself does not contribute directly to damage, aside from the boost it gives to those critical hits. ALL of Crit's stat weight is due to the additional damage provided by the critical hits it causes, and those critical hits are RNG. I scratched my head when you claimed that the stat itself contributes to damage in some way aside from additional critical hits, but a Google search set my mind at ease; while there were a few people who claimed as you did, they were quickly corrected by others posting in the threads they were in. The Critical Hit Rate stat has no affect on non-crit damage, in any way.

Determination is a completely different story - it explicitly improves damage of all kinds. You're describing crit as though it were det with some extra critical hits tacked on - and that's just not the case.

BUT assuming you were right, that doesn't mean that Parry couldn't be retooled to work the same way. Giving crit a bonus to damage outside of extra critical hits is a totally arbitrary decision to make. It's not intuitive, it's not in the stat description, and no one should be expecting it. So why not do it for Parry, as well? Give a damage boost just for stacking Parry, even if it makes no sense. Because, to be honest, giving crit a damage boost not related to crits also makes no sense.

[ADVSS]

yeah but higher crit means higher chance to crit AND more damage when it does, parry just does crap 20% all day everyday now. it used to have strength % damage blocked, they could treat it like crit, and increase the damage percent mitigated while increasing the rate, but theyd have to really loosen up on the rediculous amount of parry required to push it to even 1 percent chance increase.