As a healer, is it my job to DPS? A new perspective.

[zuzu-bq]

As in they never heal. Some don't even use Deploy.

[Normalizer]

Let's stop with this ok? Everyone knows that after you start getting MND-only gear trying to DPS without CS is absolutely USELESS. If you're going to dps, do it while in CS, or just save your time buffing or doing another thing. This is not the first time I see people bringing this type of misinformation in the thread and it's really annoying.

Tbh I see it as a good way for new healers that never tried to dps get closer to be a better healer. It could at least give them the feel when they can cast something other than healing skills. Keep asking people to dps in CS only will probably put some of them under pressure and they could turn away from even trying.

As in they never heal. Some don't even use Deploy.

Deploy is not a healing skill FYI. If a sch doesn't use deploy it's probably because it's not needed. I see a lot of group run put up whm bubble, sch deploy, pld aoe shield, then also the sch shield, just for a boss phase change attack, all while only a succor is enough.

[fantasticm]

As in they never heal. Some don't even use Deploy.

I mean yeah, some content doesn't require scholars to heal at all anymore... But if you get into an expert, or Weeping City, with a scholar that refuses to heal, then they're just bad. The only thing they're getting away with there is wasting people's time. On the other hand, a scholar that is full-time clerics in Satasha NM is doing everyone a favor. Nobody wants to be in that place longer than they have to.

[bardaboo]

I mean yeah, some crefuses to oesn't require scholars to heal at all anymore... But if you get into an expert, or Weeping City, with a scholar that refuses to heal, then they're just bad. The only thing they're getting away with there is wasting people's time. On the other hand, a scholar that is full-time clerics in Satasha NM is doing everyone a favor. Nobody wants to be in that place longer than they have to.

Eeehh. Stick em in a raid with a healer that refuses to dps. Everyone is a winner. Well the healer that would've only healed anyway will probably complain about having to solo heal. But whatever.

[Nekotee]

I doubt à sch can run expert without healing because their fairy isn't enough
On the other hand weeping City with a decent healer can be done in almost full cleric
Because EoS got an impressive toolkit in healing and heal support

...

I'm not favoring full on dps healer
Just mixing both 80% dps and 20% heal for both healer and you're good to go
Because being an ast rocking 1000ish dps on weeping While healing and seeing my sch cohealer having 100 dps and 4 time my hps is scary

[Dogempire]

I agree with your whole post, maybe not on the aggressiveness but your points are solid, and your mention about SCH is what made me quit the job. Too many SCHs get away with just cleric stancing forever.

Depends on the party and the tank, some tanks space their cooldowns well to the point Eos/Selene are enough to sustain them for 20+ seconds.

I'm not sure if you have a scholar, but I can't be bothered to check. When I'm dpsing I'm predicting incoming damage and mitigating/healing accordingly. The way I see it, the more skilled the healer, the more time you can stay in cleric stance before having to leave.

[Dogempire]

As in they never heal. Some don't even use Deploy.

It's not necessary, but I try to remember to use it when I Aldo a tank in case a melee DPS messes up.

[CBellz]

Actually, my example is more accurate because Goad and Apoc are two abilities that cannot be used on oneself and thus designed to be used on someone else as part of your kit.

The examples I have given directly have you yourself focus on your own damage, something that isn't part of your role as DPS and are cross-abilities that can either heal you or mitigate damage, or increase the healer's healing ability.

A Bard using Second Wind can save the healer from having to heal and let them DPS a few seconds longer, using Keen Flurry can mitigate around 15-20% damage at times and thus save the Healer MP, but you don't see people using it much in dungeons do you?

You completely changed the meaning of your analogy from "utility skills not related to your main role" to "skills that help with healing", but it's ok I can shoot down that argument as well. Keen flurry only works if you're actively tanking something, and if you are you're taking way more damage than a real tank would so that's not "saving healer GCDS". Second wind is actually a skill that separates good DPS from bad DPS. If you don't pop second wind when it is available to you in Nidhogg towers (when you'd be out of range of healers depending on aoe rng), I'd consider you to be a terrible DPS. Why not pop something free of charge that increases your survivability and likelihood to maintain DPS?

But perhaps the best example according to your adjusted analogy, one which you completely skirted over, is Monk Mantra. Would I consider a Monk that doesn't use Mantra at all a bad Monk? Absolutely. Again, there's no reason not to make use of free party utility that can save other players in your party multiple GCDs.

The same is true with healer DPS. If you're not DPSing and healing only as needed, you're only casting 1 GCD every 5-10 seconds. I would fail a game of Cooking Mama with that kind of button pressing rate for crying out loud. Name any non turn based game where you can get away with only pressing 1 button every 5-10 seconds. The only example i can think of is FFXII, designed with a combat system specifically designed to allow you to AFK and leave it all to the CPU. Engaging, right?

[zuzu-bq]

It's not necessary, but I try to remember to use it when I Aldo a tank in case a melee DPS messes up.

What I mean is that not even that they do.

Also it not only depends on your tanks but how your whole party play with their defensive utility skills too.

[Lambdafish]

Let's stop with this ok? Everyone knows that after you start getting MND-only gear trying to DPS without CS is absolutely USELESS. If you're going to dps, do it while in CS, or just save your time buffing or doing another thing. This is not the first time I see people bringing this type of misinformation in the thread and it's really annoying.

Are you saying that if someone DPS's outside of cleric stance it is as bad/worse than doing no DPS at all? It might not do much damage you are right, and cleric stance is preferable, BUT the point being made is that some DPS are uncomfortable with stance dancing and feel they shouldn't need to DPS because of it. My arguement is that stopping DPS is never the answer, and that cleric stance is the bit that turns you from a standard healer into a good healer, and that even if you don't use cleric stance you should be throwing out some form of damage, even if it is just DoTs.

Also when you talk about buffing/another thing? please enlighten me what that thing is? On AST, cards are probably a higher priority than DPS anyway (at which point nobody is complaining about AST DPS), but on WHM/SCH what are they supposed to do if the party is at near full HP and the tank is not taking enough damage to warrant buffs (most times I don't even need to use my own buffs as a tank)

And yes, it's ok in my point of view to not use Maim or DPS combos while tanking, as long as you are keeping hate/mitigating. Is it desirable? Absolutely not, but if I see someone doing it in DF I'd just sigh and carry on with the run and complain later to my friends.

lol ok. While I would rarely kick someone over it, I would find out why they are playing their job horribly wrong (maim and storms eye aren't optional as you seem to imply, they are part of the core rotation, and I liken this to ice mages who never use fire), and I would advise them if they are struggling with the job, but 90% of the time it is pure laziness, which is not ok.