Should PLD and WAR get gap-closers at 70?

[Alistaire]

Sure. In exchange, I'll take Equilibrium, Thrill of Battle, off-gcd stance swaps, Spirits Within, an on-demand stun, a magic damage version of Cover, Sheltron, Fight or Flight, Divine Veil, and an invincibility move that isn't healer dependent.

Every tank already has a method of negating knockback, one of which doesn't even require a target.

Don't forget ADDING DAMAGE TO FLASH. Though tbh that one would be balanced. Most of yours (except the stance swap thing) wouldn't.

[Lyth]

Don't forget ADDING DAMAGE TO FLASH. Though tbh that one would be balanced. Most of yours (except the stance swap thing) wouldn't.

Sure, make it cost TP and we'll call it even.

But I suspect that you might have lost my meaning somewhere in this sub-discussion.

[Alistaire]

Sure, make it cost TP and we'll call it even.

But I suspect that you might have lost my meaning somewhere in this sub-discussion.

That makes no sense either. DRK's flash costs mp and does this. PLD doesn't even have the mp recovery capabilities DRK does so it still wouldn't be as good, but it would at least not be as bad as it currently is.

And yeah I got your meaning, I just disagree.

[Lyth]

That makes no sense either. DRK's flash costs mp and does this.

I regret to inform you that Flash doesn't do any damage on DRK, either. We tend to not cross-class it.

[Drkdays]

I've seen fierce arguments where some "pros" have said you shouldn't even use the gap closer as...a gap closer... because it "hurts DPS damage". Funny that it's being discussed for other tanks now.

Plunge for life!

[Kages]

DRK's flash costs mp and does this.

DRK's need to manage MP as (one of their) prime ressources for a bunch of their skills, whereas PLD's don't need to manage it that much. There is no drawback spamming Flash with PLD until your MP run out (except no further use of Clemency/Stance Dance or Flash), while DRK's suffer when spending all MP (no Dark Arts, loss of dps stance etc. etc.).
Just giving Flash damage is pretty unbalanced as long as it's not using a ressource that PLD has to manage (like TP).
I play both classes quite often, but I don't get why people want damage on Flash. This discussion seems to stem from the "I want dem deeps"-attitude these days.
Is PLD incapable of holding the aggro of multiple targets? No.
Is PLD excluded from meaningful content because Flash does no damage? No. (PLD was excluded during Gordias, but not because Flash doesn't do damage)
SE won't change Flash just because people want to clear DF-dungeons 30 seconds faster (a bit exaggerated, but that's the place where AoE-spamming will produce the most obvious difference).
PLD definitely needs some tweaks, but SE shouldn't use their ressources to fix stuff that's not the main problem with the class.

PLD doesn't even have the mp recovery capabilities DRK does

Because PLD doesn't need those, as MP isn't a ressource PLD has to manage as much as a DRK. If PLD really needs to manage his/her MP, Riot Blade still does restore MP.

ontopic:
I see the reasoning behind wanting a gap-closer for every tank class (e.g. homogenization and "it looks cool"). I just don't see the advantage that such skills could offer in today's meta. Plunge is rarely needed as a gap closer (same reason why Tempered Will isn't a great CD most of the time), because monster-skills rarely push players back and often get countered easily (e.g. by standing near an arena wall). So Plunge is mostly used to catch up to trash and therefore start DPS'ing with DRK faster and as oGCD damage.
If all tanks get a gap-closer there should be a real incentive to actually use them as such, which is a pretty interesting idea for future content (imo). If every tank gets them, there is no reason not to implement (raid-)mechanics revolving around them, as movement-abilities in general are pretty underrated atm (like Shukuchi, Jumps, Plunge, Shoulder Tackle etc.). Just adding those skills because "they look cool" and "DRK has them aswell" isn't exactly a good idea.

[EssiestF]

I think draw-in effects would be better for tanks honestly. Like holmgangs draw-in, but just draw-in not the rest.
Plunge is nice if you can hit unmend and plunge at the same time (Unmend hit first) but quickly together its good.
Problem I've found is when I get close to the boss so that Plunge is in range sometimes thats also close enough for the boss to "see me" and come after me. Target runs at me, I plunge, and I'm stuck in animation lock and the boss is still facing the party. Another situation is I have a group of mobs at A but for some reason the last add is over at B attacking someone else maybe I missed it in unleash, or dps pulled off me, I shouldn't Plunge over cause then the mobs I have get relocated and I'm bringing them all over to this person already being slapped. I'll use provoke and unmend to start then figure out how else to keep them depending. Plunge is a situational use. Where draw-in I think would be very useful for tanks in 4.0. Hope I made some sense lol

[Alistaire]

I regret to inform you that Flash doesn't do any damage on DRK, either. We tend to not cross-class it.

I said "drk's flash" meaning their version of it. And yes, it does damage.

[Khalithar]

I see the reasoning behind wanting a gap-closer for every tank class (e.g. homogenization and "it looks cool"). I just don't see the advantage that such skills could offer in today's meta.

I addressed these points in my post on the prior page:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3846839

But I'll reply to it here also. I don't think you should view a gap closer as being added for homogenization. Giving every class a gap closer and a taunt/provoke of it's own is less about homogenization and making sure they have the basic tools to do their job. That being said though (and again, I already said this in my last post) I agree with you that the tanks don't really need it in today's meta, I put my reasons why in that post though and I don't want to re-type it all.

[garret_hawke]

I Think pld could use a gap closer while war get the harpoon separated from it's immortality cd while all the skill have they're range increase to 30y (15y is too short take less time to walk most of the time)