Should PLD and WAR get gap-closers at 70?

[Lyth]

Don't forget ADDING DAMAGE TO FLASH. Though tbh that one would be balanced. Most of yours (except the stance swap thing) wouldn't.

Sure, make it cost TP and we'll call it even.

But I suspect that you might have lost my meaning somewhere in this sub-discussion.

[Alistaire]

Sure, make it cost TP and we'll call it even.

But I suspect that you might have lost my meaning somewhere in this sub-discussion.

That makes no sense either. DRK's flash costs mp and does this. PLD doesn't even have the mp recovery capabilities DRK does so it still wouldn't be as good, but it would at least not be as bad as it currently is.

And yeah I got your meaning, I just disagree.

[Lyth]

That makes no sense either. DRK's flash costs mp and does this.

I regret to inform you that Flash doesn't do any damage on DRK, either. We tend to not cross-class it.

[Alistaire]

I regret to inform you that Flash doesn't do any damage on DRK, either. We tend to not cross-class it.

I said "drk's flash" meaning their version of it. And yes, it does damage.

[Lyth]

I said "drk's flash" meaning their version of it. And yes, it does damage.

DRK's version of Flash? As in the untraited version? As I mentioned before, DRK's version of Flash is a GLD cross-class skill which generates enmity, but does no damage and doesn't apply a blind effect.

I don't mind seeing people suggesting balance changes on jobs that they haven't yet had a chance to level, so long as they have a genuine interest in theorycrafting. But looking up the skill names is a good start, in order to facilitate discussion. Allow me to suggest that vague descriptors such as "that scary red puddle of darkness with the spikes coming out of it" might provide some small measure of clarity in a pinch, if you're really stuck (actually, that probably describes half of the moves in DRK's kit, but we can try our best.)

But this is a gap closer discussion, so I'll defer any further mention of this subject to the other thread.

[ADVSS]

probably just meant "spammable aoe threat generating ability" tbh

[Kages]

DRK's version of Flash? As in the untraited version? As I mentioned before, DRK's version of Flash is a GLD cross-class skill which generates enmity, but does no damage and doesn't apply a blind effect.

He probably meant DRK's version of Flash as in DRK's Unleash, as Flash and Unleash are functionally nearly equivalent (self-centered AoE with increased enmity generation). They ofc also differ: While Unleash does damage, Flash does not. Flash does blind (added mitigation), which Unleash doesn't. Also Flash is using a ressource that PLD doesn't need to manage as much (MP).

[Lyth]

He probably meant DRK's version of Flash as in DRK's Unleash, as Flash and Unleash are functionally nearly equivalent (self-centered AoE with increased enmity generation). They ofc also differ: While Unleash does damage, Flash does not. Flash does blind (added mitigation), which Unleash doesn't. Also Flash is using a ressource that PLD doesn't need to manage as much (MP).

Unleash also has spikes coming out of it, which is why it does damage. With Flash, you invite the mobs over to take a commemorative photo with you. It's a much more friendly affair which is more MP and battery efficient.

I'm secretly hoping that some clever person will try to argue that Enhanced Unleash procs don't cost MP. Then we can have a follow-up discussion on why we ought to give PLD free Flashes off of Shield Lob.