Samurai Weapon: Nodachi or basic katana

[Sterre]

No matter how much you guys argue about the facts why SAM should be tank/dps, at this point there's no right or wrong regarding what role SAM will play. Let's just wait and see what the DEVs will give us and be happy with that.

The thread was made for people to discuss about which type of weapon SAM would use, which can be done without the role debating, so let's stay on topic.

[Cynric]

Saw a comment about how there are probably samurai tank assets. . but id like to note that if you look at drk use of parry and the usage of their sword that it seems the tank assets were just used for drk instead. Just my opinion though. As for weapon im thinking it will just be generic katana. Any creativity will come through unique drop designs.

[ADVSS]

2-handed katana, DRK got that yo-hai nodachi on lockdown, and the law weapon

[Shippuu]

Saw a comment about how there are probably samurai tank assets. . but id like to note that if you look at drk use of parry and the usage of their sword that it seems the tank assets were just used for drk instead. Just my opinion though. As for weapon im thinking it will just be generic katana. Any creativity will come through unique drop designs.

I disagree, the sluggish animations and choice for DRK to use their swords in the awkward Ox stance speaks of a decision to deliberately differentiate the way DRK's use their swords, possibly to prevent overlap if they do decide on making Samurai a tank. The way a Samurai would use their normal katana (or dual wield) would make them quite different animations-wise compared to DRK.

Also, saying Samurai couldn't use parry because DRK has 1 parry cooldown (WAR also has 1 parry cooldown that's better than DRK's) is like saying they shouldn't have added DRK because PLD has abilities that reduce the damage they take. Just because one (or two) tanks have certain cooldowns doesn't mean others can't either.


As for the topic, I wish to see Samurai either use a traditional katana with sheath, or a dual wield option. I'd rather not see the large great katanas from FFXI make their return.

[EdwinLi]

The thread was made for people to discuss about which type of weapon SAM would use, which can be done without the role debating, so let's stay on topic.

Oh someone actually got back on topic for this thread about what type of weapon people think Samurai may use?



Jokes aside, I've given up on this topic due to how derailed it got over a completely different topic.

[HorrorStory]

Bomb-throwing time mage, most likely. A concept that's never been done.

[Nalien]

Dark Knight in FF has been kind of the opposite of a tank, as their thing has been using up their HP to deal damage... Still somewhat makes me wonder why they chose it as a tank class...

Blame Final Fantasy XI, that really doubled down on Dark Knight being a mirror to Paladin... Paladin had White Magic? They gave Dark Knight Black Magic, specifically focusing on Drain based spells, which ultimately have a lot of synergy with a tanking role... Technically, our Dark Knight still has the traditional mechanics of a Dark Knight, they just swapped HP for MP... Mechanically we also have a backwards form of "-Def +Atk" in Grit... All they need to do is give Dark Knight a Meditation style Convert skill, and I'm perfectly happy with the Job, and if they ever decide to give us a Minus Strike style skill? It'll be stronger on a tank than on a DPS, just due to the higher HP levels... Darkness in past titles was originally good for AoE situations, and Dark Knight here has really run with that IMO, Blood Price, Abyssal Drain and Dark Passenger are really satisfying to use, makes me sad virtually everything serious in this game gets tuned for 4/8v1...

Ultimately I think it just makes for a more interesting tank than a DPS, so I'd say it was a good call on the developers side... Samurai, on the other hand... While a reactionary counter-based tank is definitely interesting, aesthetically and mechanically I don't think Samurai brings anything new to the table as a tank... Blue Mage would, as well as providing an additional blunt damage Job if given maces, while also being the perfect fit for a counter-based tank... Blue Magic is inherently counter-based, you get hit by Chocobo Kick, now you've learned Chocobo Kick and throw it right back at your enemy... That actually makes for a more interesting counter skill IMO, Samurai would have what? Nothing Ventured (from Bravely Default) to just counter an attack? Blue Mage could have a skill that reduces damage from the next enemy skill, then the counter mechanic is you using that skill back at them... They can't emulate the old school Blue Magic system in XIV (or they could, it would just be a lot of work), but they can let you learn Blue Magic on a temporary basis; Got hit with Browbeat? Cast Browbeat. Got hit with Mindblast? Cast Mindblast! Much more interesting than how Samurai could pull of a counter-based tank, IMO.

[Tint]

Also, saying Samurai couldn't use parry because DRK has 1 parry cooldown (WAR also has 1 parry cooldown that's better than DRK's) is like saying they shouldn't have added DRK because PLD has abilities that reduce the damage they take. Just because one (or two) tanks have certain cooldowns doesn't mean others can't either.

DRK doesn't only have one parry cooldown - DRK has mechanics about parrying. Reprisal and the cooldown reset of Low Blow are depending on parry.

[Shippuu]

DRK doesn't only have one parry cooldown - DRK has mechanics about parrying. Reprisal and the cooldown reset of Low Blow are depending on parry.

And? Your point being? Still doesn't change the fact that another job can be added that has similar abilities related to parry. To say amother job can't have anything proc off of a parry is like saying DRK shouldn't have been added because PLD procs a shield swipe off of a block which is fundamentally the same as a parry.

[Cynric]

DRK doesn't only have one parry cooldown - DRK has mechanics about parrying. Reprisal and the cooldown reset of Low Blow are depending on parry.

@Shippuu
Exactly this. I originally switched to DRK and the entire job is based around parrying. In order to reach your DPS ceiling as a DRK you have to be able to parry. In order to be able to reset your stun you need to parry. In order to even do something similar to storms path you have to parry. DRK is already a parry tank. In fact its ironic how DRK is the so called magic tank when magic can not be parried effectively reducing the effectiveness of using DRK to main tank in fights like Ramuh that are pure magical damage and removing the ability to use the trait low blows and the skill reprisal, while also making Dark Dance somewhat useless.

You bring Warrior into this conversation however don't forget Warrior can literally do everything except block and hardly even needs a healer in some content.

As far as the weight behind the attacks and the stance. I did say in my opinion it seems like they just used the assets. It looks very similar to how I'd imagine a Samurai-tank would attack, and I just don't see them making another two handed sword user a tank.

Going off of that if they did make Sam a tank it definitely would not be a parry tank. DRK is already the parry tank. It would not be a magical tank as DRK already holds that as well. DRK also has the "counter attack" style down with low blows/ reprisal. This is why I say the assets seem to have been used on DRK instead. I just can't envision a DRK being a parry user, yet that is the direction they took with it. Which to me seems like they reused assets from the original concept for samurai which very well could have been a parry tank.

The chances of it being a DPS are much higher than it being a tank. That's not to say the chance is zero but it's just not a very high chance. Due to these reasons.

There are no sword DPS. - They could use anything as a sword DPS but Sam seems to be very wanted in both our community and the JP community as a sword DPS.

There is already a 2h sword Tank user - DRK has pretty much everything that SAM as a tank would have had when thinking inside the box involving parry/counter/partial magic damage.

Square has had issues balancing 3 tank jobs - They've already had a ton of issues balancing three tanks. I feel they'd rather introduce a blunt tank than introduce another slashing tank which would make it even harder to balance between the current tanking jobs. The amount of revamping needed would be very high.

The backlash from making DRK a tank was high. I highly doubt they'd want to experience that again.

Doma not having a defensive class does not matter. The class balance only matters for the starting zones. The expansion will not be a starting zone as far as we know.

This isn't to say it can't be a tank I just highly doubt it. Especially if they're going by what the community wants.

If they just did it without considering the community. I'd see it being a tank. If they're doing it considering what the community wants then it will be a melee DPS.

Either way I will play it. However, I just hope they make it play interestingly. Though the chances of me continuing to play it if it were a tank is very low. As not only are there only two maximum tank slots but Square has issues making involving and challenging tanking mechanics while also keeping each tank balanced and viable.