Yoshida' stance on PL and why it is less than ideal.

[Vanguard319]

I'm sorry, but no...

I started playing FFXI in back in December of 2003 and didn't stop going back to it until about 6 months ago. I have, at one point, played every job at level 75 and several at level 90 and I will say boldly that leveling taught me NOTHING about end game.

The things you learned for endgame were things they taught you IN endgame, and after Square started building abilities and game functionality around endgame, it just got worse.

I leveled up learning skill chains and mana conservation, but by the time you hit 75 (And eventually 90), none of that mattered. You were only casting at specific times, doing specific spells, and watching for specific things to stun. Things that were only barely practiced while leveling up. Maybe early on you had to learn to save your TP for stuns when goblins could level all of Yhoator with one bomb, but even that was phased out by 2004.

The argument isn't a blind claim that you don't learn how to play your job over the course of leveling up -- you definitely learn certain things. The argument is that you don't HAVE to spend months leveling up to appreciate how your class is supposed to work and what your abilities do.

Especially with how bare bones things are -- the game tells you exactly what an ability does and wikis tell you exactly the percentages the effects have. There's no need to investigate and develop a feel for how things work when you know the actual numbers behind it.

You can spout years of experience all you want, I'm sure a lot of us can -- 10 years of Ragnarok Online (across several custom servers), 8 years of Final Fantasy XI, several months of WoW, years and years of Diablo: but it doesn't matter.

End game is always significantly more complex and unwieldy than the leveling game, and unless the game makes a habit of hiding things from you (Which early FFXI did), then its very easy to research your abilities and learn what you're supposed to do.

Good players do that anyway, even if they took 2 years to level up to cap. Bad players don't, and that's why they are bad players. And that's why forcing them to level up slower isn't going to change anything.

Like I said before, none of us who actually aim to have any amount of success are going to be running solely with completely random players -- so the power leveling issue doesn't directly effect anyone other than the people who PL and don't take the time to learn what they are supposed to be doing. Its a non-issue that's being overhyped, especially considering Yoshida has already expressed interest in fixing the issue because it hinders part of his expected time frame for leveling up.

That aside, let's not muddle an already overhyped issue with more nonsense. People who want to learn to play a game properly do. You can't force that down their throats -- bad players will be bad players, whether you force them through a 3 months long, tutorial where "This is how you play your job" instructions pop up in bright red and yellow letters or not.

People who -want- to be good players will seek out the information they need to do so -- because that's just how it works. That's why we have the phrase "ignorance is bliss." Because some people are perfectly content with not knowing any better, and they're going to stay that way no matter how you try to spin it.

You're the type of person who would ride a supersport bike in race regulation without any prior riding experience aren't you?

[Buddhsie]

When I first started my character (a couple days before 1.18) it took me 2 1/2 weeks to get my first 50. This was when necrologos and the like were nerfed, honestly it didn't take that long to rank up before, and powerleveling was still possible (very quick 1-30).

Regardless of how quick it is to level up now, the real grind is the materia system. Think of it as meriting, I know I spent countless hours meriting my jobs in FFXI and just like now, you're nothing without them. I foresee a quickfix in 1.19a for the PL system anyways, so meh.

[Vahzl]

YOU should be mad about the bots running around, PL'ing atleast the player is there to move around if needed.

Have been back in the game a week, playing 5-6 hours a night and a good 12 hours per day on the weekend.

Have yet to spot a single bot. Where are you seeing them "running around"?

[Betelgeuzah]

Regardless of how quick it is to level up now, the real grind is the materia system. Think of it as meriting, I know I spent countless hours meriting my jobs in FFXI and just like now, you're nothing without them. I foresee a quickfix in 1.19a for the PL system anyways, so meh.

I don't particularly mind this, but I think leveling progression can offer things that materia progression can not. The progression does not happen only with the increase of stats and equipment, but also by unlocking milestones and going to new previously "inaccessible" areas.

Materia progression is a great extension but not a replacement.

[Buddhsie]

I don't particularly mind this, but I think leveling progression can offer things that materia progression can not. The progression does not happen only with the increase of stats and equipment, but also by unlocking milestones and going to new previously "inaccessible" areas.

Materia progression is a great extension but not a replacement.

What stops people from doing that along the way? I can't realistically see anyone sitting down for 20 hours straight being PL'd to 50. You're more likely to see someone doing the majority of their leveling through PLing, and doing various other things like exploring, experimenting, crafting in the time outside being powerleveled. Sure the most extreme case may be that someone starts a character and 20 hours later is 50 without touching a monster, but realistically it would be segmented and spread out in couple hour patches here and there. The system works both ways, you can't claim it's all bad when not all people who utilise it abuse it.

[Vahzl]

I don't particularly mind this, but I think leveling progression can offer things that materia progression can not. The progression does not happen only with the increase of stats and equipment, but also by unlocking milestones and going to new previously "inaccessible" areas.

Materia progression is a great extension but not a replacement.

I disagree, levelling just offers experience, Materia offers diversity to your class. Yes once you hit 50 you can enter all zones and areas available right now, but you still need to do your quest chains, and actually take part in content, no matter how trivialised it might be now. There is currently no way to work around the games questing or content.

Exp is exp, no matter where it comes from.

Myself for example, I quest and explore in the day time, and on my lunch at work, and then in the evening, I trade off power levelling with friends, and last night I went out to do leve linking too. The majority of players will do the same, as while power levelling is fast, it's also boring when you do it too much.

Stop treating it like everyone is power levelling to 50, as this is only in very extreme cases. People usually get to 30 at the most, then get back to the grind.

[Betelgeuzah]

What stops people from doing that along the way?

Nothing. The majority of the time is spent grinding Materia however.

The progression you're describing is over faster than you can snap your fingers. That's the point. If you don't want to play this game for more than few weeks and then quit, sure you can be alright with that. However, not all of us are like that. We want to play this game for a long time, but at least I don't want to spend the majority of that time grinding Materia that offers no real milestones nor diverse progression.

[Alexandrious]

If their gonna do this crap Yoshida may as well give new players an option to pick a class upon character creation and start it at Rank 50. If he really wants people to just get to endgame content quickly, screwing everything low to mid end and not help them learn their damn jobs then may as well do things Guildwars style and give the friggen option. People are doing in what looks to be less then 2 weeks what took me and many others 4-6 months to friggen do.

Such utter fail....

[Rinsui]

I disagree, levelling just offers experience

So what "experience" does powerleveling offer?
What does it teach new players?
That it's best to go afk while others feed you with undeserved EXP?

[Vahzl]

So what "experience" does powerleveling offer?

The same experience points as party based levelling.

Honestly people, if you want these threads to actually progress in discussion stop being pedantic and facetious (can't believe how many times I have used those words in the last 3 threads on this pointless topic).

If you want to discuss it, stop the crap and be direct, because all you are doing is tiring the conversation.