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  1. #41
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    May 2011
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    And what about those of us that are now enjoying the game again, with this system in place? Do you think it's fair that for something you can opt not to do is removed just because you don't like it?

    Answer that question please, as to why you think it is fair for you to have your way, when it doesn't affect you in the slightest, and yet it is unfair for us to have our way, when you can still play as normal.
    (0)

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by KenJammin View Post
    The point of an MMO is to level long term, if i'm just burning to max level so i can kill Ifrit and stop whats the point of all the low level dungons, leve's, solo content, slew of equipment, advancement of skills. The grind in this game is hardly hardcore at all and now that people have reduced themselves to playing once a week hitting max and stopping is just sad.
    Whats fun about watching your friends level you from 1-50? Its not about competing to be the best, its about putting the players who have a sense of accomplishment and attachment on a fair playing field as the players who gamesharked they're way through the ps1 era...

    If you could cheat and get max money in an MMO yes that affects me directly, if you can cheat and get infinite exp in an mmo that affects me, I don't want to cheat I want to play the game the way it was intended to be played, and i think most players will agree that cheating in video games is boring.

    Also what about all the players that are just rushing to 50 to have a max level character and not play with their friends? I had a guy offer me 300k to PL him today, and i see shouts for PL parties in ul'dah all the time. People will always take the path of least resistance in an MMO, they're not going to enjoy the game this way, they're just going to get bored with it and fail to appreciate the depth of combat when Ifrit spanks them over and over...

    I know some of you see me as a totalitarian dictator that thinks everyone should be as miserable as me so that I can feel a fabricated sense of pride. I have a max level character already my concern isn't just for me but all the players who are going to take the path of least resistance and ruin the experience for not only me but themselves.

    I'm going to quote Denmo again since i think his post really highlights the real disappointment of this controversy:
    You and I both know the system that is in place at the moment well it sucks. But until SE comes out and tells us it's not what they wanted people are going to PL all day every day until they fix it end of story.

    BUT you and your friends and anyone else that doesn't like the system as it is doesn't have to play it that way. Go play the game the way you all want to play the game and enjoy it.

    You can't force people to play this game any other way than the way they want to so stop trying to.
    (0)

  3. #43
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    You failed to show how people being power leveled hurts you, so why do you feel the need to tell others how they should enjoy themselves? And you're not a special snowflake, you can place your rant in one of the other threads like most others are doing.
    (1)

  4. #44
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    Travesty's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    290
    Character
    Travesty Eidolon
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by KenJammin View Post
    The point of an MMO is to level long term, if i'm just burning to max level so i can kill Ifrit and stop whats the point of all the low level dungons, leve's, solo content, slew of equipment, advancement of skills. The grind in this game is hardly hardcore at all and now that people have reduced themselves to playing once a week hitting max and stopping is just sad.
    Whats fun about watching your friends level you from 1-50? Its not about competing to be the best, its about putting the players who have a sense of accomplishment and attachment on a fair playing field as the players who gamesharked they're way through the ps1 era...

    If you could cheat and get max money in an MMO yes that affects me directly, if you can cheat and get infinite exp in an mmo that affects me, I don't want to cheat I want to play the game the way it was intended to be played, and i think most players will agree that cheating in video games is boring.

    Also what about all the players that are just rushing to 50 to have a max level character and not play with their friends? I had a guy offer me 300k to PL him today, and i see shouts for PL parties in ul'dah all the time. People will always take the path of least resistance in an MMO, they're not going to enjoy the game this way, they're just going to get bored with it and fail to appreciate the depth of combat when Ifrit spanks them over and over...

    I know some of you see me as a totalitarian dictator that thinks everyone should be as miserable as me so that I can feel a fabricated sense of pride. I have a max level character already my concern isn't just for me but all the players who are going to take the path of least resistance and ruin the experience for not only me but themselves.

    I'm going to quote Denmo again since i think his post really highlights the real disappointment of this controversy:
    I concur with pretty much everything you're saying.

    I don't really understand the people who are totally fine with just essentially skipping the leveling process in an RPG. That's what an RPG is. And no, that's not a mentality of the past, it's just a fact of the genre. It seems to me that the kind of person who would want to bypass the leveling process of any RPG, is really not a person who is very fond of RPGs. It's someone who wants to play an MMOG, not an MMORPG, and they're coming into that genre and trying to whittle it down to what they want. And sadly, they're finding success.
    (2)

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travesty View Post
    I concur with pretty much everything you're saying.

    I don't really understand the people who are totally fine with just essentially skipping the leveling process in an RPG. That's what an RPG is. And no, that's not a mentality of the past, it's just a fact of the genre. It seems to me that the kind of person who would want to bypass the leveling process of any RPG, is really not a person who is very fond of RPGs. It's someone who wants to play an MMOG, not an MMORPG, and they're coming into that genre and trying to whittle it down to what they want. And sadly, they're finding success.
    RP does not mean Mindless Grind, it means Role Play.
    (0)

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vahzl View Post
    And what about those of us that are now enjoying the game again, with this system in place?

    If this is what you think makes a balanced MMO that lasts for years possible, I suggest you go look at some single player games, they tend to provide more than a days worth of content. Hell I imagine it takes longer to level up in Single player games than it does in XIV currently.
    (2)

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travesty View Post
    I concur with pretty much everything you're saying.

    I don't really understand the people who are totally fine with just essentially skipping the leveling process in an RPG. That's what an RPG is. And no, that's not a mentality of the past, it's just a fact of the genre. It seems to me that the kind of person who would want to bypass the leveling process of any RPG, is really not a person who is very fond of RPGs. It's someone who wants to play an MMOG, not an MMORPG, and they're coming into that genre and trying to whittle it down to what they want.
    I didn't know video game adaptations of pen and paper games were solely about lengthy experience points grinds. I thought they were about many things, like choice and exploration, but it seems to only be about how long it takes you to hit max level.
    (0)

  8. #48
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    All of this talk about PLing is really making me want to go out and PL. Thanks guys.
    (0)

  9. #49
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    Travesty's Avatar
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    Travesty Eidolon
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    Coeurl
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    Dragoon Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by Vahzl View Post
    RP does not mean Mindless Grind, it means Role Play.
    Grind does not have to mean Mindless. That's a misconception that the people I was talking about seem to be spreading.
    (2)

  10. #50
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    Raikki's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Raikki Zero
    World
    Jenova
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    Ninja Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by KenJammin View Post
    If you think playing the game as opposed to watching the game make me a hardcore player then you need to seriously look at the level of attachment your trying to achieve to this specific MMO...
    Attachment has always been one of the key issues with this game, hasn't it?

    Attachment is not gained through mindless grinding. Attachment is gained through fun experiences; the type of stuff you get nostalgic about years later. FFXI's level up process was absolutely filled to the brim with these experiences, and I think that's why people loved that game despite its glaring flaws. There were so many things to do as you went along and new places to explore as you went. The level process also bonded you with people and made you new friends as you did all this stuff together.

    Apologies if I'm overglorifying this, but the point is that absolutely none of this exists in FF14. There are no new places to explore, and you don't have to bond with new friends along the way ("a maximum of one person may enter this instance" anyone?). The story is cool but there's practically zero meaningful gameplay involved in it. It's really just a series of cutscenes that you view. That's what we get for making it solo and DoH/DoL friendly. There's no sense of teaming up with the friends you've made along the way and overcoming the obstacle in a battle and being rewarded by the story.

    To compound this, when the game launched there was literally nothing to do at the end of that meaningless journey. There was a very real "now what?" problem. When the new dev team took over, they had two choices: they could tackle the gargantuan level up problem or address the somewhat easier problem of endgame. The real solution to the level up problem would be a set of mammoth changes that would dwarf the combined weight of every patch we've ever had. By the time that kind of work could get done the game would have been sitting for a completely unacceptable amount of time without a meaningful endgame already and would sit without one even longer while they built that afterwards. What good is fixing the journey without a destination? This is the trade-off that comes from trying to rebuild a game that's broken in so many fundamental ways while it's running live.

    So now that they've started to add a destination, I think we can very much expect work to pick up on fixing the journey. This will be a very long process and involves the complete map redesigns they've talked about. In the meantime, the content is at the destination and they need to cushion the impact of the soulcrushingly bad level up process or very few people will make the journey. You may not agree with how much they've cushioned it, but please remember that the level up process as we know it now is indeed meaningless and soulcrushing. Don't get too discouraged by this. Huge changes are coming and meaningful new aspects of character progression are part of those changes. Everyone will start to experience this together when we get the jobs system and with luck we'll have a new journey we can actually enjoy when the cap increases.
    (1)

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