Thread: Difficulty format for Normal and Savage will remain in 4.0

Originally Posted by Cidel

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I agree, while many others in this thread have raised other valid concerns, I feel making fights recoverable, not easier would go a long way to help fights feeling more rewarding.

Of all the fights I've done in XIV, my most memorable was my first time in The Aetherochemical Research Facility. It was early days so no guide and so I went in blind, ended up with a party of people who'd already done it before, when I asked anything I needed to know I was simply told "Don't die" We got to Lahabrea & Igeyorhm and only a little into the fight the ninja bites it, followed quickly by the tank, leaving me as the healer and our Black mage as I'd just swift rezed the ninja but he was unable to avoid an aoe due to the animation and went right back down. We danced for another minute while I looked for an opening in the aoe's to get someone back up. Eventually the Black mage valiantly face tanked to buy me time, falling just as I got the tank on her feet. From here I was able to keep her up while slowly getting the others back. The fight lasted ages but we fully recovered and went on to beat phase 2 first try as well. It was the most fun and most memorable moment I've had in a fight so far.

Everyone made mistakes there, the Ninja for face tanking aoe's to do more damage, the Tank for not just blowing cool downs early, me for using my instant rez when the tank was just about to die, well the Black Mage didn't really make a mistake, that brave, brave soul... But we were able to use what we had, a little skill and a lot of luck to pull back something that most would have just given up on. Hell the tank and Ninja told us to wipe it, they were as surprised as us that it worked. But that just made it feel all the better.

Originally Posted by Cidel

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I don't think it was just the game change that no longer made that sort of strategy possible. It seems the devs don't want people to drag out the fight or cheese it in any way whatsoever, so now we got fights where you either jump the rope perfectly or you wipe. Or beat the boss quickly or you wipe from enrage.

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

I don't think it was just the game change that no longer made that sort of strategy possible. It seems the devs don't want people to drag out the fight or cheese it in any way whatsoever, so now we got fights where you either jump the rope perfectly or you wipe. Or beat the boss quickly or you wipe from enrage.

Well we had "Team Jump Rope" for 3 years now and here we are today still complaining about it.
I also hate DPS races where heals probably gotta pick from, healing folks or if they don't DPS it's going to be a wipe.

Originally Posted by Iromi

^ Wait tho, how did Tera do it then? The fights were super challenging at end game and I did them with random people. But it would get to the point where I had to kite, reraise myself, and raise others over and over. They were long, difficult, butt clenching fights but we did it lol.

This games problem with raiding is it allows for no recovery. Sometimes that can be the most challenging aspect of a battle..and the most fun. Shame that they left that out of this game...

TERA has Rez scrolls and something like a 'Reraise' skills on healers, also scrolls for self-res if you die. We don't have any of that.
In TERA, if a healer dies, the DPS can run over and scroll you and you're back in the game.
On here, you better have a SMN and pray to God he has SC and stuff or pray NO ONE screws up.

Things seriously has gotta change in 4.0.

For the record I was using The Aetherochemical Research Facility as simply an example of my fun experience of turning something that seemed hopeless into a win. I wasn't comparing it to Savage, claiming anything should be change to it or anything else. But feel free to claim I was, that's fine. I don't think content should be easier I was simply agreeing that more opportunities for turn around's would be healthy in my opinion.

Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

I wasn't comparing it to Savage, claiming anything should be change to it or anything else. But feel free to claim I was, that's fine.

Originally Posted by BlitzAceRush

I feel making fights recoverable, not easier would go a long way to help fights feeling more rewarding.

Your words, not mine.

If not Savage, what were you referring to in regards to irrecoverable fights? WCoM? Nidhogg? It certainly doesn't help that the post you expressed agreement with was referring to changing Savage.

But yes, you were also the person who implied there was a way to make fights harder without making them punishing. You do realize that the most popular strategies in A4S and A8S both sacrifice people to trivialize complicated mechanics. That's what happens when you don't make mechanics punishing.

Thank you for showing that I did not in fact compare it to Savage and was as I said saying that making things more recoverable not easier was what I said, as for the fact the post I agreed with was talking about Savage, again you've quoted for me showing that I was agreeing with the notion, not Savage in particular as I never said that, so yes my words and yes, still not implying what you claimed they were.

As for your second point, I did say that, but just because someone get's creative and finds a way to trivialise something doesn't mean what I suggested can't be done, there are many ways they could design fights to be harder without being as punishing as they can be currently without making them easy to exploit your way around. It's not an absolute situation where doing one will always lead to the other. In fact being overly punishing can often encourage what your claiming being less punishing would.
Make something painful and overly punishing and people will often seek to avoid/avert that pain, even if it means totally destroying the point, after all if it's causing that much grief they'll just want it to be done with. However make it hard, challenging without feeling so punishing and people might be more inclined to actually try and get by it.

To give an example (disclaimer: this is just an example of my point, I am in no way using, claiming or suggesting things should work like, be like or act like this example, it is purely an example to illustrate a point)
In Dark Souls 3 I was running my face into the Nameless King, my build was pretty bad as I was trying something new and my stats were all over the place. He'd been kicking my butt for the better part of 3 days, but I was enjoying trying to get my strat down and beat him as is, his attacks were punishing but fair and with my damage the fights were long, but I had room to make errors I could recover from a few mistakes and win. However on day 2 I found an odd glitch. (Was playing on the un-patched Japanese Xbox version) If I pulled him too far to one side, he would leash back towards the middle, during this time I could hit him several times, it pretty much broke the fight. I chose not to win with it as I wanted to beat him on my own, because I was having fun with the whole experience deaths and all.

Can only speak for myself, but if I find something fun and fair, no matter how hard it is, I don't mind sticking with it till I either beat it or call it quits and admit it beat me. Yes some people will look for the path of less resistance, yes some will always try and brake something to get it easier/faster but I just said that something doesn't have to be punishing and hard to do without dancing a perfect dance, to be hard, challenging and rewarding.

But hay, that's just an opinion.