Tiamat: Meracydian, Dragon, Allagan Lore

[Malackai]

Part of the problem is the very same thing that keeps humans from interacting well with dragons in the first place: Their immortal perspective. Bahamut may have passed away thousands of years ago, but to Tiamat it might as well have been yesterday. She's barely even begun to mourn him. It's the same reason Nidhogg is still so pissy; humans might as well have pried poorRatatoskr's eyes out just yesterday, as far as he's concerned. (Well, that and the fact that he was kind of a dick even before that whole mess happened.) We can only optimistically hope that Tiamat's pain might dull to the point where she can function once more sometime before the sun goes out... But if that happens, it will still likely be well outside the scope of this game.

that's the part that irks me the most all of Middy brood keep saying time runs differently for dragons then humans. Yet middy himself literally says to Tiamat:
It hath been five thousand years, my child. Wilt thou not forgive thyself?

So he implies that even for a dragon it has been a while now and that its time to forgive herself.

Maybe middy is better able to relate to the short human time span but it was weird reading that even back then.

[Alice_89th]

So he implies that even for a dragon it has been a while now and that its time to forgive herself.

Maybe middy is better able to relate to the short human time span but it was weird reading that even back then.

Do we know how old dragons can become? Is 5000 years what 50 would be to us? or 5?
And maybe Middy does have a better perspective on time. Maybe 5000 years is still nothing to a dragon, but to the rest of the world it is long.

Perhaps Tiamat will stir, Perhaps not.
There is still some of Middy's brood that we have yet to see and we have no idea what they are up to. Maybe they will rouse her. Maybe the Garleans will rouse her after getting too close. Maybe we will say something that offends her to the point of battle. Or maybe Tiamat just sits and sulks for the rest of our (short) lives.

[Vulcwen]

Do we know how old dragons can become? Is 5000 years what 50 would be to us? or 5?

I think the question should rather be, how old is Tiamat? rather than how old she can get. As her current age will indicate the percentage of her live that 5000 years were, which would make it easier to find a proper idea of how their perspective on time is.

We can guess it by assuming they were born in the first astral era.. I'd guess the first astral era would be 10000 years ago, in which case 5000 years would basically be half her life, I think that's definitely significant. Even if that time is quite a bit off, I don't think the early Astral Era's lasted long enough for 5000 years to not be a significant part of a dragon's life at this point. So, comparing it with human lifespan would be about 50 years I guess.

[Rocl]

Well, Tiamat describes Midgardsormr's arrival at Hydaelyn as "time before time," "before the beginning of everything," and "the beginning of time" however we don't know when they hatched. It could've been immediate or it could've been thousands of years. We've also then got to decide if that sort of nascent arrival was 20,000 or millions of years ago--which means you have to decide in either science or theology.

What's curious is that the evidence we have for millions of year is a dragon bone... hmmm....

[LystAP]

that's the part that irks me the most all of Middy brood keep saying time runs differently for dragons then humans. Yet middy himself literally says to Tiamat:
It hath been five thousand years, my child. Wilt thou not forgive thyself?

So he implies that even for a dragon it has been a while now and that its time to forgive herself.

Maybe middy is better able to relate to the short human time span but it was weird reading that even back then.

Well, he could have just been using a mortal excuse to appeal to his daughter. He wasn't ordering her to forgive herself, but asking the question as a father.

[Zohar_Lahar]

During the journey of remembrance/recap post 3.3 it sounded very final that she'd never do anything but sit there to punish herself. I'd love for her to do something but I've already given up all hope. A Tiamat on a floating continent... it was so perfect... All we needed was a namedrop of Lufenia and an Enforcement Droid named Warmech...

Warmech should have been the S-Rank Elite Mark in Azys Lla, instead of Leucrotta. With a 1/64 chance of spawning when a player approaches any spawn point.

And yes, Tiamat feels like a huge waste, along with the complete absence of the other two First Brood. Their tremendous lifespans brings up a lot of questions about previous eras, like why Midgardsormr apparently had no problem with Allag or Mhach putting their capitals near Silvertear but attacked the Garleans when they got too close. Also how they coped with Umbral eras, etc.

[Rocl]

Warmech should have been the S-Rank Elite Mark in Azys Lla, instead of Leucrotta. With a 1/64 chance of spawning when a player approaches any spawn point.

And yes, Tiamat feels like a huge waste, along with the complete absence of the other two First Brood. Their tremendous lifespans brings up a lot of questions about previous eras, like why Midgardsormr apparently had no problem with Allag or Mhach putting their capitals near Silvertear but attacked the Garleans when they got too close. Also how they coped with Umbral eras, etc.

We're given the subtlest of hints than another one of the First Brood lives in Othard, but I'd argue it does make sense that the First Brood should be scattered across Hydaelyn. Let's not forget Tiamat was more or less forcibly uprooted from Meracydia and brought to Eorzea (and the same can be said of Bahamut). It remains to be seen how long Hraesvelgr and Nidhogg have been there but I can't imagine them being there since the First Astral Era. (You're an immortal dragon, surely you'd travel?)

But Warmech yes. Why do you tease me so Yoshida?

[Toranja]

Midgardsormr was tasked with protecting the Seal in Silvertear Lake - by Hydaelyn, I would imagine, given his conversation when we get there and by what appears to be himself yielding the Echo.

Which asks when and how was the seal erected. To which I can only answer: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It is possible the seal was erected as soon as the Sixth Umbral by Midgardsormr himself as an attempt to break the cycle. Although, reading the lore about the place it looks like has been there since the beginning.

[Malackai]

Well, he could have just been using a mortal excuse to appeal to his daughter. He wasn't ordering her to forgive herself, but asking the question as a father.

True I wasn't talking about ordering tho.
It was more the the fact he was using that specific human excuse/reasoning to rouse.
When Alphinaud was parlaying with the dragons and trying to explain that is was time to move forward basically with the same reasoning, It got thrown back in his face with the standard "time moves differently for us dragons" Hraesvelgr mentioned it as well.

First thing that came to mind when I got to the Tiamat part was. nononono Niddy you cant have your cake and eating it too.
I am not talking about the amount of time and differences of both cases but just the core reasoning that was used.

[Ametrine]

The thing that I remember most is what is noted when you meet Tiamat again during the post 2.3 pilgrimage; the WoL is content with leaving her there as she desires to be till the end of time.

No point in saving the one who doesn't even want to be, I guess.