war nerfs(srs bznz pls)

[Freyyy]

snip

??? What are you talking about ? There is no "raidwide" physical mitigation. Raidwide damage are 90% of the time magical. The only example of "raid" physical damage I can think of is T13's earthshakers, and there might be other small examples here and there, but they generally don't matter at all because if they did, they'd have to increase the physical defense on healer and caster gear because they have a very low amount of it, just like DRG did before 2.45 with mdef, and was being one-shotted by almost every raid-wide attack because of it in T11, T12, T13 unless he had some crazy amount of VIT. But since 90% of the raidwide damaging attacks are magical, only INT down debuffs matter. STR down literally just helps for the current MT.

[Brian_]

What, so you actually understood what I meant, yet feel you still need to correct what Stark said ?! So you're arguing for the sake of arguing, or what ?

If English isn't your first language or you have some other reason for the lack of comprehension, then I apologize in advance.

Because seriously... it's getting really frustrating dealing with the lack of reading comprehension. I will break it down for you one step at a time.

1. I said that you were proposing that Path be removed.

2. Stark said that you weren't removing path, just giving physical mitigation to it. That can be interpreted to mean that not only are you keeping Path's 10% damage reduction, but you're also adding physical mitigation to it due to the lack of the word 'instead.'

3. I clarified on both fronts. First with this line --

Okay, so I regard the 10% damage reduction from Path as synonymous with Path since it's the entire point of the skill. If you remove the 10% damage reduction from Path, it's no longer Path.

To clarify that when I say Path, I mainly refer to the 10% damage reduction because that is the defining property of the skill.

Then with this line --

He clearly suggested to remove the damage reduction from Path and give WAR physical mitigation instead.

To make sure we were all on the same page before going into the explanation for why you can't just remove Path's current purpose from WAR and replace it with RoH.

So clearly I didn't read when I considered even the possibility that Stark might've made a small phrasing error in his message.

[Reynhart]

??? What are you talking about ? There is no "raidwide" physical mitigation. Raidwide damage are 90% of the time magical. The only example of "raid" physical damage I can think of is T13's earthshakers, and there might be one example here and then, but they generally don't matter at all because if they did, they'd have to increase the physical defense on healer and caster gear because they have a very low amount of it, just like DRG did before 2.45 with mdef, and was being one-shotted by almost every raid-wide attack because of it in T11, T12, T13 unless he had some crazy amount of VIT. But since 90% of the raidwide damaging attacks are magical, only INT down debuffs matter. STR down literally just helps for the current MT.

Lots of Cleaves are physical. Like the Liquid Hand in A3. I admit that I missed one type of damage of certain AoE, which is Darkness. Something that neither STR Down or INT Down can reduce, yet Storm's Path can.

If English isn't your first language

You're right, english is not my first language.

I thought your line was to "correct" him. It was unusually phrased to say "we're saying the same thing".

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I still think that having WAR as the only option to put a permanent 10% damage reduction and/or a 10% increase in slashing damage is putting to much emphasis on the job. Reprisal is far less reliable, and basically forces the DRK as MT, and DV mitigates a lot less thoughout the fight, especially since it does not work on the PLD.

[Brian_]

I don't deny that he brings some good point, I just feel that he put too much words into other people mouth, then bashing them for what they actually didn't really say. And also that if you didn't do Savage, you automatically have absolutely no understanging of how the game works, which is false and incredibly condescending.

I've never put words into anyone's mouth. I thought I made that abundantly clear when I went through the entire topic highlighting what I was replying to. If you take statements I've made about the general tone about this topic personally, that's you putting words into my mouth.

Also, I have no problem if you don't do Savage. I have a problem with people who don't do Savage and say incredibly short-sighted things like "just remove the damage reduction from Storm's Path and give WARs a crappy physical damage reduction instead -- BALANCE ACHIEVED!"

If you had good opinions and suggestions with some real support, then I wouldn't give a crap about your experience in Savage.

Unfortunately, in your case, the lack of experience has led to some incredibly ignorant opinions that show a clear lack of understanding about how balance works at the highest levels.

I still think that having WAR as the only option to put a permanent 10% damage reduction and/or a 10% increase in slashing damage is putting to much emphasis on the job. Reprisal is far less reliable, and basically forces the DRK as MT, and DV mitigates a lot less thoughout the fight, especially since it does not work on the PLD.

DV not working on the PLD generally does not matter because the PLD has 28k HP and the raid-wide damage it is used to mitigate won't kill the PLD DV or not. It's used to make sure the squishies around you don't drop dead.

Reprisal being less reliable and only usable while taking hits you can parry is a real issue and one that I would highlight if I were to start addressing the issue with PLD and DRK pairings. But, like I've repeated multiple times, what does that have to do with WAR? Nothing. It's also not really an issue with DRK's balance either. It's an issue with DRK's design.

[Freyyy]

Lots of Cleaves are physical. Like the Liquid Hand in A3.

But the hand in A3S is literally the only physical cleave that I can think of that you share with the whole raid, and even then, back in the days you couldn't clear A3S with a PLD until weeks of gearing up because it had real DPS issues (which have been fixed since then), so the STR down wasn't available to most parties and we never needed it to prevent the raid from dying there. The highest danger was the MT dying because autos were going off at the same time as these cleaves and were really deadly. You just needed to have everyone at full HP when splitting the cleave, didn't even require shielding or path outside of protecting the MT. It has nothing to do with the pure raidwide magical AoEs that require Path, INT down debuff, shielding and all that good stuff to even just survive it.

[SpookyGhost]

back in the days you couldn't clear A3S with a PLD until weeks of gearing up because it had real DPS issues

Just nitpicking but you could.

[Freyyy]

Just nitpicking but you could.

I didn't even know about them tbh lol. This video actually proves my point about the STR-down debuff's raid-utility being almost non-existent, you can see that the cleave only puts the party members at 50% HP, so they're in absolutely no danger of dying, the STR down doesn't change anything about that. It only secures the MT damage.

[Sweetgrass]

My only point regarding the power of Storm's Path is due to the prevalence of Darkness damage(damage that cannot be mitigated by stat decreases, like those from Delirium, Halone, or Virus) in Savage right now. Giving that to another tank might help balance out the meta that is [PLD/DRK] MT, WAR OT where WAR is a guaranteed pick. Slashing debuff is it's own obstacle.

[Sarcatica]

I didn't even know about them tbh lol. This video actually proves my point about the STR-down debuff's raid-utility being almost non-existent, you can see that the cleave only puts the party members at 50% HP, so they're in absolutely no danger of dying, the STR down doesn't change anything about that. It only secures the MT damage.

The PLD in that vid did a very precised timing on Sheltron for the tank buster cleaves. Remember that you have to actually account for the autos too. That is by far the most underrated thing for PLD. This skill alone allowed him to push that needed extra DPS for the first clear. Certainly RoH can be a factor but you need to account how people use the kits properly. People can say anything about Path being OP but there are just too many instances where using Path is unnecessary, making it suboptimal. This to me is what tells how skilled you are at using a skill properly rather than using it just because you can.

[Berzullha]

Im curious because I haven't been able to find anything on it yet, but have they actually talked about Warrior nerfs or is this all just speculation?