Difficulty format for Normal and Savage will remain in 4.0

[Remus]

I'm pretty sure SE doesn't even know what to do with raiding anymore even though people have given suggestions.

[Nalien]

I'm pretty sure SE doesn't even know what to do with raiding anymore even though people have given suggestions.

The main problem is the odd belief that people doing the bare minimum of the games content should get a similar level of rewards... Nowhere is this more true than with Relic weapons... I've no idea why anyone thinks the item level those quests provide is acceptable given the content involved... It makes no sense to me, item level doesn't even really matter that much unless you're doing Savage... Yet people feel entitled to that item level for doing some of the easiest content possible...

I really wish SE gave us either branching Relic quests, or multiple Relic quests... Take 2.0, we had the Relic Reborn weapons, then we had the Primal Focus weapons... Could have upgraded both IMO, Relic Reborn has you farming FATEs? Primal Focus has your farming Coil. Need a rare drop from Snowcloak to get Excalibur? Balmung needs a rare drop from Shiva (EX). That doesn't make the drops from raids any better, but it at least adds some additional value to the content... Such a shame that both Relics would need to be equal though... Such an absurdity... It's genuinely backwards; The more effort you put into this game, the less rewarding it becomes... Someone who rarely plays is likely going to be excited when they pick up some Lore gear for doing basically nothing. Meanwhile, someone who busts their ass off raiding gets to watch as other players rapidly get the same item levels for a fraction of the effort... By all means, reward casual players as well, but the notion that they need the same rewards as hardcore players? It's stupid... All it does is make the MMO less attractive for hardcore and casual alike...

[Velhart]

do you actually look at the stats or do you just like to assume that since casuals are the majority that there is no need to be diligent?

You do know that even at level cap, you are a minority player? Does that mean that we should cater the game strictly to leveling? No, that would be a dumb way to design a game. I forget the stat off of the top of my head, but admittedly by SE own stats released about 30% of the player base makes up the end game community.

Coils had a 10% participation rate, with about 5% reaching a full clear before heavensward.

That's nearly a third of endgame players that participated in coils. This notion that we are talking about 1% of the player base is ridiculous. If Alex had not destroyed the raiding community, we would still see this similar pattern of participation.

In reality, when raiding was at it's healthiest in this game, close to a third of endgame players were trying coil and many of them were able to actually down some bosses.

Source:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ea-Census-2014
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...e8ff1bcf34c5ae



It's not locked, you choose to lock yourself out of it, which is perfectly fine. It's your prerogative to choose what you spend your time on, but it does not mean that your choices have to be detrimental to others.



Sure it does, you don't need to solo anything. You could have gotten 3-4 people together right after hitting level 60 (just a few weeks after HW) and destroyed T1-13.



Again, this is just more of you wanting the entire game to cater to you. This game is full of casual content, you just want 100% of the game's content to cater to you, it's very greedy. Once you take Raiders and non-level capped charters into account, you and your ilk comprise about 25% of the player base, not such a hefty margin to warrant that 100% of the game cater to you. Thus, you should not have everything handed to you on the silver platter, you are not as large of a demographic as you think.

The main problem is the odd belief that people doing the bare minimum of the games content should get a similar level of rewards... Nowhere is this more true than with Relic weapons... I've no idea why anyone thinks the item level those quests provide is acceptable given the content involved... It makes no sense to me, item level doesn't even really matter that much unless you're doing Savage... Yet people feel entitled to that item level for doing some of the easiest content possible...

I really wish SE gave us either branching Relic quests, or multiple Relic quests... Take 2.0, we had the Relic Reborn weapons, then we had the Primal Focus weapons... Could have upgraded both IMO, Relic Reborn has you farming FATEs? Primal Focus has your farming Coil. Need a rare drop from Snowcloak to get Excalibur? Balmung needs a rare drop from Shiva (EX). That doesn't make the drops from raids any better, but it at least adds some additional value to the content... Such a shame that both Relics would need to be equal though... Such an absurdity... It's genuinely backwards; The more effort you put into this game, the less rewarding it becomes... Someone who rarely plays is likely going to be excited when they pick up some Lore gear for doing basically nothing. Meanwhile, someone who busts their ass off raiding gets to watch as other players rapidly get the same item levels for a fraction of the effort... By all means, reward casual players as well, but the notion that they need the same rewards as hardcore players? It's stupid... All it does is make the MMO less attractive for hardcore and casual alike...

We need to request to SE to allow us to put two likes on a post, because that is what I would do to these two posts.

[LineageRazor]

The main problem is the odd belief that people doing the bare minimum of the games content should get a similar level of rewards... Nowhere is this more true than with Relic weapons... I've no idea why anyone thinks the item level those quests provide is acceptable given the content involved... It makes no sense to me, item level doesn't even really matter that much unless you're doing Savage... Yet people feel entitled to that item level for doing some of the easiest content possible...

First off, in any game, no matter how casual or hardcore, there's a desire to improve your character. Whether it be by leveling, acquiring gear, learning new skills, whatever - it doesn't matter AT ALL what you're using this character advancement for. When you're tough enough to beat the hardest boss in Diablo II, do you stop trying to acquire new legendaries or rares? Of course not - now that you can beat the boss, you want to beat the boss faster and more efficiently. You want to build your character into a monster that can curbstomp that boss. The same applies here, whether you're hardcore or casual - whatever it is you choose to do in game, you want to have access to better and better stuff so you can do the things you like to do BETTER.

Secondly, relics are in no way casual content - don't think for even a moment that they are. No casual player will go through the grind that it takes to make a relic weapon; if they're willing, they are by for that reason not someone you can consider casual. I would argue, in fact, that acquiring a relic takes MORE time and dedication than even the toughest raid currently in the game. A raid, as long as you're good at pattern memorization and have a similarly competent team with you, you can master in a matter of a couple weeks of practice. At that point, it's just a matter of farming, and waiting for RNGesus to bless you with the random drops you're after - and all the while, it's getting easier and easier as you acquire stronger gear simply by participating in the raid.

A relic, on the other hand, you will not be completing in a few weeks. It doesn't get any easier, either - if anything, it gets HARDER. Even if you factor in the nerfs SE introduces to make previous stages of the relic easier, there's still all those stages to get through, with the final "raid equivalent" stage typically being the most ridiculous grind. While it's true that all that grinding is content that's easily accomplished, it's still a test of patience and perseverance that no casual player (and, to be honest, not many hardcores either) would be able to stomach.

No, the most significant difference between raid weapons and relic weapons is not the difficulty in acquiring them, but the fact that one can be done solo while the other requires a team of eight. The difficulty in assembling a team is what makes raiding inaccessible to most, not the difficulty of the content. If SE were to introduce a "raid simulator" which involved a solo player having to complete a "dance" that simulates what a player would go through in a raid, I think you'd find that the number of players capable is much higher than the "has completed Midas 4" statistics would indicate. Given the option to practice at their own pace, and not be continually frustrated by one of the other party members screwing up a mechanic and returning everyone to square one, yeah, you'd be seeing much better rates of learning and success.

There are plenty of people capable of raiding who simply never get the chance, simply because each time they attempt it they get saddled with a new group of people stuck at the beginning.

[KarstenS]

I'm pretty sure SE doesn't even know what to do with raiding anymore even though people have given suggestions.

I have found some interesting points within the latest Famitsu interviews, which may bring some light into the darkness, what they are doing.

A little list of "reasons" why the turned into the direction we currently have.

Y: I think it's because of the characteristic of japanese players, but there's this forced momentum where players feel like they definately have to clear the content no matter what and this idea seems to be stronger in japan.

[...]

If everybody around you has cleared the content, you need to clear it. If there's a certain trend, you need to follow it. That sort of feeling is probably floating around.

[...]

It might be because the Japanese MMO market hasn't had "high end raids" before and not being able to clear content even if you have the best gear is new for them.

In some sentences he is stating the current focus with the raid:

Y: Although i want to get rid of the atmosphere where you feel left out if you don't raid..but i think it's a japanese thing.

As it seems in the both interviews, the current focus is the japanese community only. Don't know what I shall think about it.

Sources:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._needs_to_ask/

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...rward_another/

[Remus]

snip

That annoys me a bit. That can't just design it around a japanese mentality when other regions play the game as well. If your creating a MMO with numerous cultures sometimes you need to take it into account when creating content.

[Cakekizyy]

That annoys me a bit. That can't just design it around a japanese mentality when other regions play the game as well. If your creating a MMO with numerous cultures sometimes you need to take it into account when creating content.

Hasn't SE always built their games to Japanese players?

[Remus]

Hasn't SE always built their games to Japanese players?

Single Player games its understandable but not in a MMO which gets constantly update every few months with a playerbase mixed with japanese players and western players. If they continue doing things purely for japanese only it can lead to change in numbers on the other side. Also FFXV has taken quite a bit of feedback from the western audience when creating the game.

[Iromi]

That annoys me a bit. That can't just design it around a japanese mentality when other regions play the game as well. If your creating a MMO with numerous cultures sometimes you need to take it into account when creating content.

Exactly. They will shoot themselves in the foot if they continue doing this. It is very close minded and silly. If he continues with this logic (to cater to one region, when multiples play it) then they will continue to have the main player base be just that...and in turn more and more people will quit. Makes me sad, I thought we left that mentality back in the 90s, but I guess not :/

[Velhart]

snip

I don't get Yoshi-P's logic. So, Savage difficulty has to be lowered so people don't feel left out? It would be a better accomplishment to overcome the difficult trial, not wait till it is reduced to my level. I am just a western mind however. If you are making a MMO catered to a worldwide audience, then there definitely needs to be a compromise between western and eastern ideologies. From how he explains things, it seems like he favors an eastern mindset first, which I guess is natural because that is the team.