Why are people complaining about the relic nerf?

[LineageRazor]

On The Grind, and whether or not it is fun...

No, a grind isn't fun. A grind is work. It's something you don't really want to do, but do because it brings in greater rewards, later on. Those greater rewards - THAT is where fun enters the equation. And it's not so much "fun," exactly, as it is a sense of completion and satisfaction.

A lot of MMO's - probably ALL of them, actually - bank on this feeling to keep folks interested in the long term. The idea that you can work and work and work and, in the end, actually accomplish something, is a very addicting feeling - particularly for folks who, in real life, work and work and work, and at the end of the day feel like they've accomplished nothing.

As for the nostalgia of the stage one ARR relic... Yeah, I doubt there's anyone here that doesn't agree that that original stage was the most fulfilling of any step of the relic. It was available in the game on the game's release, and they soon realized that it had a major flaw: the "poor man's" alternative to the raid weapon was way more difficult than the average poor man could hope to accomplish. While it's difficult to imagine, now, Titan (Hard) was, well, HARD back in those days. For your average Duty Finder group, you had about the success rate that you do for duty finder groups on Titan (Extreme) nowadays. The raid weapon alternative was almost as tough as the actual raid weapon!

SE also identified a growing need to get folks running aging content to ensure that newer players always had folks to queue up with. To kill two birds with one stone, thus evolved the relic system as it exists: an excuse to get folks running old content over and over and over and over and over... Folks who lacked the skill to raid, or who were unable to find a competent raiding group, could substitute patience and determination in order to get a similarly powerful weapon.

Sadly, while it's not impossible that we may see some interesting quests as part of the relic questline, don't ever expect to see challenging content as part of the process, ever again. If you want challenge, you're expected to raid. If you want a powerful weapon without the challenge, that's what the relic is for.

[Samcaesar]

This thread continues to be a lovely example on why the word "entitled" means absolutely nothing any more on these forums >_>

Y'know, you'd think all these people could show a bit of empathy towards other players when they go "It was such a pain in the butt to get the relic to this stage!". Like.. I get that you're upset that you feel that you suffered for this, but it's kinda a jerk move to want other folks to suffer for it as well when you obviously didn't like it >.>

[Whocareswhatmynameis]

This thread continues to be a lovely example on why the word "entitled" means absolutely nothing any more on these forums >_>

Y'know, you'd think all these people could show a bit of empathy towards other players when they go "It was such a pain in the butt to get the relic to this stage!". Like.. I get that you're upset that you feel that you suffered for this, but it's kinda a jerk move to want other folks to suffer for it as well when you obviously didn't like it >.>

But that's the way people are. If people bought the fat moogle mount and then a patch or two later, they gave them to everyone for free.... People would get upset. The fact that the devs can't figure this out is a bit of a red flag.

People wouldn't just somehow be like "Oh I'm happy for you that you didn't have to pay 30 dollars like i did." Nor are people going to say "Well I had it semi-exclusive for a patch or two so it's fair." Nor are they going to say "I take pride that i got that item when it cost money". And the real kicker is they would probably stop buying stuff on the Mog Station if they did that!

It's the same reason welfare is frowned upon. People don't like the idea of others getting stuff handed to them that they had to work for. While I personally don't care about the relic nerf or welfare, this is the first time I've seen them nerf a step this hard. They made the items twice as easy to get and require half as many. This really does make me not want to do the quest anymore.

And truthfully, there was no reason for them to even do that. There is already a tomestone weapon and a palace of the dead weapon that people could get if they didn't want to do the relic quest. Maybe a slight nerf, but nothing this extreme was needed.

[aesteval]

It's the same reason welfare is frowned upon. People don't like the idea of others getting stuff handed to them that they had to work for. While I personally don't care about the relic nerf or welfare

And people need to 1) stop frowning upon public assistance programs such as welfare, and 2) stop comparing such a program to VIDEO GAMES. Public assistance program can mean the difference between life and death for those who it supports. There is NOTHING shameful about surviving.

[alimdia]

And people need to 1) stop frowning upon public assistance programs such as welfare, and 2) stop comparing such a program to VIDEO GAMES. Public assistance program can mean the difference between life and death for those who it supports. There is NOTHING shameful about surviving.

he might be talking about welfare gear

[Lone-wolfe-02]

I wasn't complaining infact i was overjoyed because now i get more relics <3

[valoiz2]

I don't get why people is so mad with something we all knew would happen... They did it on Zodiac of couse they will on Anima

Remember all the fates we needed to complete to get all 12 Atmas? I know people who did more than 300 fates to get them. after a HUGE nerf they dropped 1 per fate right?
Next.. Books quest if I remember well we needed to complete 9 books, after a few months they reduced this to 3 books
Lights.. Same story
Alexandrites... Huge nerf ----> you could do 20 fates and only get 1 alex (with a miracle) then they dropped like candies
Even the meterias.. I remeber I bought 1 Savage Might Materia Grade IV for 600k gil. It doesn't costs that much anymore (at least on my server)

The thing is: after all this months they do nerf so new people can rush to "equalize" others cuz they only will get an i210 weapon, there is no changes on next 2 steps

[Samcaesar]

Snip

Except that's not a good example because you're literally spending money in that example (Of course, the fact that you're paying money for things in a subscription based game is itself a very controversial topic >.>). SE would owe people money back for an otherwise unprecedented change with an entirely different situation. Heck, are people getting mad that new players don't have to wait two years for them to access 3.3 content like the rest of them did? Or shoot, are you gonna start getting mad at crafters and SE for putting in dungeon gear that makes catching up to a better ilvl much easier whenever you had to grind so many dungeons just to get to ilvl so and so and new players can already go beyond that with some gil. I mean heck, if you're going to say that, you might as well start raising the pitchforks at SE and go "Either make new players pay for all the time they weren't subbed in the game for them to get the current content or you're not being fair to all the people who had to pay for it so far!" Heck, I don't think I'd see you raising pitchforks whenever FFXIV or Heavensward gets discounted and people buy it then either. Where does this line of logic end?

Nerfs happen my dude, and they should especially in a system that requires an extended period spent on grinding. It's time management and no one wanting to spend who knows how long playing catch up to another game of catch up. If you really wanna get mad about something, get mad that SE continues to use a system that'll eventually require nerfing instead of thinking of appropriate time needed to be spent from the get-go and systems that are enjoyable and slightly modular so it's both enjoyable and not super time consuming for the player either looking to get the current BiS weapon or the player who just wants to get to the next stage for the item.

Also if you don't want welfare you completely misunderstand poverty and its effects, lack empathy, and are probably don't have good opinions in regards to other subjects as well, but that's an entirely off topic subject that isn't really comparable.

[Whocareswhatmynameis]

Except that's not a good example because you're literally spending money in that example

Your examples are super extreme and you say my example is bad.... Have you NOT seen the backlash from the community at the very mention of jumping potions? A feature that is more than likely going to be added? Yes people get pissed off everytime they add new tomestones and hand out the old tomestones that people spent months getting. After a couple times of this happening people start having much less enthusiasm in capping tomes. As a developer the last thing you should want to do is discourage people from playing your game.

How many people need to unsub before Yoshida agrees it's a crap idea? When your game's progression starts being reffered to as a "treadmill" you have a problem. That's not a term of endearment, its a frickin insult.

[Samcaesar]

Snip

Yeah, your example is bad because it's a completely unprecedentedly hypothetical while nerfs to the grind have occurred over and over. I'm just following the logical thread of "I had to do THIS to get X! So EVERYONE has to do what I went through to get X because I hated it!". I'm sure if you worded it well enough, you could get a good chunk of people getting angry because newbies are getting content for a fraction of the amount of money or time they had to invest in to get it. Just like people are getting pissy when 90% of their response is "I had to invest time/energy into this and this person is getting is for less!". I don't think I've seen a single reason in this thread that doesn't come to that logic except one person who said they were upset for a little bit because they just sank 4 million gil into HQ items only for that to be wasted in a day.

People are also being dingdongs about jumping potions for the exact line of reasoning. Jumping potions do not affect them, especially when as it is, this is a theme park MMO where most quests are "do x. Kill y mob. Go talk to this npc". You're not learning anything from the story besides the story and people are in arms again for the same mentality. "I had to sift through a story I didn't like and spend weeks grinding to level x! You have to do the same!"

Okay so, we both agree, grinding is awful. How on earth does "As a developer the last thing you should want to do is discourage people from playing your game" fit your line of reasoning of keeping the grind, when nearly everyone dislikes grinding? In fact, "treadmill" is a pretty apt way to describe stuff like the relic grind, especially prior to nerfs... Again, if you wanna get up in arms about something, don't get puffy at bystanders. Get mad at the source, the dev team making content that eventually results in nerfs due to the nature of the content and progression of the game.