Something need to be done in how tanks acquiring Provoke

[ADVSS]

well the potion would have to give you the secondary class to 15 as well, excrptions being new jobs. Interesting statement though above, that all healers have their own basic heal like physik vs cure with the same potencies as well as all having their own raise, which is cross classable to all 3 healers, in this case, both cure and raise couldve been forced to be used, like provoke is for the tanks, but they did what they did. I still agree with both sides but only because i have no issues levelling jobs obviously, others probably feel differently about levelling

[Ametrine]

When were level potions confirmed? I knew it was on the table, but has an official statement been made?

[TaranTatsuuchi]

It's in the hall of novice as a recommended skill. They even show you how to make a macro using it.

If that is the case (apologies that I haven't done the hall of novice as a tank, only as deeps and healer), then this discussion is essentially over.

Does the game tell new players, upon reaching level 15, that they should go talk to these Smiths?

There is a quest to go there before entering Sastasha.

Even if it does mention provoke, which a few posters after these I quoted say it doesn't.

I don't believe going through the novice hall is a requirement to continue into group content.

It's the same with the Stone, Sky, Sea.

[Vivi_Bushido]

Are you suggesting that a level potion would give you every class at 60? It would only be one unless SE wants pitchforks, the best we can expect is one class at 60 and the story complete so they can go straight into the expansion. This actually gives MORE excuses, as they have skipped the learning of the cross class system and they could go into the expansion system having played the game for 5 minutes and never having opened the cross class menu.

I'm under the impression that it would work exactly the same way as it does in the Chinese and Korean version of the game, which if that's the case, the potion boosts you to level 50, not 60; and it's an unlimited number of purchases. Therefore, my statement remains unchanged that there would be no excuses not to have cross-class skills, unless your just cheap or prefer to grind things out manually.

Secondly, while the level potions are designed and intended for new players to use; so that they may catch up with their friends; I believe that while some will do that, this level potion feature is going to end up being used far more by long term existing players to power level classes/jobs they would otherwise never grind to 50. Same goes for their alts. Especially the RPers of Balmung who want to RP in Ishgard but don't want to play their alts through the main story again.

[Jijifli]

well the potion would have to give you the secondary class to 15 as well, excrptions being new jobs. Interesting statement though above, that all healers have their own basic heal like physik vs cure with the same potencies as well as all having their own raise, which is cross classable to all 3 healers, in this case, both cure and raise couldve been forced to be used, like provoke is for the tanks, but they did what they did. I still agree with both sides but only because i have no issues levelling jobs obviously, others probably feel differently about levelling

Well just talking about the healer thing real quick and why it's not a good example.

Just starting off, a healer without an early game healing spell isn't going to get seen as a healer. Even if it's not provoke, tanks low level still get tank based abilities. And as for raises, traits come into play. The WHM one can't raise in combat without the trait, and it'd be stupid to make SCH unable to raise because of it.

[Lambdafish]

Well just talking about the healer thing real quick and why it's not a good example.

Just starting off, a healer without an early game healing spell isn't going to get seen as a healer. Even if it's not provoke, tanks low level still get tank based abilities. And as for raises, traits come into play. The WHM one can't raise in combat without the trait, and it'd be stupid to make SCH unable to raise because of it.

The original example only used raise. A healer is still a healer if they get cure spells, but if raise was exclusively WHM and had to be cross class, it would be bad. Tanks might get tank based abilities, but that does not detract from the fact that provoke is a vital piece of every tanks toolkit, just like raise is a vital piece of every healers toolkit.

[LineageRazor]

I'm under the impression that it would work exactly the same way as it does in the Chinese and Korean version of the game, which if that's the case, the potion boosts you to level 50, not 60; and it's an unlimited number of purchases. Therefore, my statement remains unchanged that there would be no excuses not to have cross-class skills, unless your just cheap or prefer to grind things out manually.

No, as was mentioned, they have even MORE excuses not to cross-class:

They jumped to 50. So what? They still don't know that they need Provoke, or what other class provides it. They can buy any number of potions. But why would they? They already leveled the class they want to play, and all cross-classes are just cute little bonuses, not something you actually NEED, right?

I think you're of the mistaken impression that folks don't have Provoke because they're too lazy to level GLD. That is NOT what this thread is about. This thread is about the fact that nowhere in the game is it made clear that tanks who don't get Provoke cannot function in most endgame fights. And I question whether the "laziness" excuse is even as common as people seem to be implying. NOT ONCE, upon finding a tank in endgame without Provoke, have I heard them whine about how HAAAARD it is to level a job for cross-class skills. The answer I always hear is along the lines of, "Oh, wow, really? I didn't know that! Well, crap. Sorry!"

Players, in general, will level a class to 50 first, and only take sub-classes up to the minimum to unlock their job. They'll go back and get cross-classes later - but they're eager to try out the challenging content that becomes available at 50 (and if you play it synced, it IS challenging). The mentality is that cross-classes provide useful tools - but not VITAL tools. That getting them is similar to picking up a higher-level piece of gear, a way to improve your character. And most of the time this is true - Eye for an Eye is nice to have, but even the most challenging raids can be completed without it. Provoke, though, can't be done without - and this fact is not made clear to eager WARs who have finally made it to level 50 and want to dive into interesting battles like Ultima's Bane or Titan Extreme.

[ADVSS]

Well just talking about the healer thing real quick and why it's not a good example.

Just starting off, a healer without an early game healing spell isn't going to get seen as a healer. Even if it's not provoke, tanks low level still get tank based abilities. And as for raises, traits come into play. The WHM one can't raise in combat without the trait, and it'd be stupid to make SCH unable to raise because of it.

After thinking about this, this is true, maybe raise in a perspective like if you heal real well you dont need to raise then we take it to raids with fire walls and ohko(well oops i guess i need to get raise) like not having provoke doesnt mean you cant tank it just means that you cant tank swap(that easilly) there is the magic case of overpowering the mt in enmity but if he has a lead goodluck.(unless like me drops tank stance to let the ot get a lead[bad idea if you got stacks though cept i guess mt dying would swap the boss to ot])