Yoshida' stance on PL and why it is less than ideal.

[Eekiki]

I find it amusing that a lot of the same people that are whining about power leveling are the same people who like to whine in all the auction house threads about how they want to be able to buy stuff right from the menu.

My instant gratification is good. Your instant gratification is evil.

[Travesty]

Again, more exaggeration to blow the whole thing out of proportion. I've seen a lot of people do Toto Rak at low levels for the fun and challenge of being the minimum level -- myself included.

These threads are harboring on the absurd. All people taking the position against the ability to PL can say is "everyone is going to do it" when those of us who actually have been playing the game can see that a majority of players are choosing a traditional route over riding an express train.

I didn't say 0 people are going to do it.

But it's idiotic and illogical to take the position that if they introduce a popular way for a large portion of the playerbase to bypass early levels, the content during those levels won't be significantly invalidated.

[Lavani]

Why this mindset does not work within the framework of FFXIV:

A) New Players can essentially skip low-midgame content
B) New Players can essentially ignore the economy up until level 50
C) New Players can essentially ignore the party play component of the game that the new patch fully supports otherwise.
D) Any Player with no access to a PL does not have power to do any of this, and as such is in a drastically worse position as the result.
E) Leveling becomes a hindrance rather than a method to achieve a goal. When all of the above applies to the process, it loses all the meaning it had. If you level up in an environment such as the one above, does it feel like an accomplishment to complete the task? Or do you instead start asking "Why must I go through this? It takes no skill. It requires no dedication. Even the developers seem to not care about me doing it. I wish I was already capped to get to the real content."

Because if the developers embrace the mindset that everything below cap is not content you should be doing, and make them seem as useless and unimportant as leveling is....of course the players start thinking the same. If the whole point of the game is to get to level cap as soon as possible (and the game gives you the tools to do so), what the hell are we supposed to think? "Why do you make me go through all this to get to level cap then" would be my thought.

Let's analyze his opinion in parts:



Here in bolded we see that in Yoshida's opinion, end game content like Ifrit takes precedence over anything below it. Instead of the high level player helping his friend experience the low-midgame content as an equal, Yoshida wants for the friend to get to the endgame as soon as possible instead. Everything aside from endgame is not worth playing for.

The text in italics shows that the underlying reason for Yoshida's mindset is that he wants the high level friend to be able to help his low level buddy.



Here, though, he makes his opinion a bit more clear. He wants the high level player to keep his status quo (for some reason, which isn't explained) even though that makes the low level friend useless and unnecessary.

The italic text seals the deal. Yoshida wants for friends to challenge content at the end of the game together, instead of wanting the friends to challenge content based on the low level player's level together. In essence, he thinks there is no value to any content pre-endgame and the results can be seen in 1.19. There really is no value to anything pre-endgame anymore, and the aforementioned points A, B, C, D, E become true.

I was initially going to offer a suggestion to consider that would balance the situation towards keeping low-midgame relevant much better (Yoshida hasn't played FFXI has he? Perhaps that is why he has missed Level Sync altogether when forming his opinion on the matter- or even worse, he hasn't missed it). However, looking at what he says there really is no questioning it. Yoshida's opinion is that endgame is all that matters, and enabling us to get there as soon as possible is his primary objective.

In that case, although I couldn't disagree with him more than I currently do, how about you just skip this content that you see as inferior and just let us start where the content you actually value is? I won't be around for long in that case, that's for sure, but I'll be around for even less if, knowing this is what you think about the content, you still force me to go through it for some inexplicable reason.

TLDR anyone plox?

[Eekiki]

TLDR anyone plox?

Basically:

"People should only be allowed to enjoy the game the way I think they should enjoy it."

[trinta]

let's not get caught up in "if A = B and B = C, then A must = C" argument here. There is content for everyone.

That's called the transitive property. It isn't an argument, it's mathematical fact.

I don't understand the context you used this statement in, but... If A=B, and B=C, then A=C. It isn't debatable.

[Lavani]

Basically:

"People should only be allowed to enjoy the game the way I think they should enjoy it."

Ok thanks I wish i can get power leveled because I think watching an entire room of monsters die is fun, not to mention the awsome chains we can get! Oh and i can see all content because of power leveling!

[Sephrick]

I didn't say 0 people are going to do it.

But it's idiotic and illogical to take the position that if they introduce a popular way for a large portion of the playerbase to bypass early levels, the content during those levels won't be significantly invalidated.

So I translate this as "I see your point, but I'm going to choose to ignore it so I can continue to argue."

This style of powerleveling existed well before 1.19. The link system actually tilted things in favor of traditional partying because the rate of exp gain feels worthwhile.

It's not idiotic to assume the majority of players won't just powerlevel as far ad they can when I and many others have seen the traditional method of actually playing take precedence.

[Issac]

That's called the transitive property. It isn't an argument, it's mathematical fact.

I don't understand the context you used this statement in, but... If A=B, and B=C, then A=C. It isn't debatable.

It's called a fallacy.

Straw man
Straw man: A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.
Example
Person A: Sunny days are good.
Person B: If all days were sunny, we'd never have rain, and without rain, we'd have famine and death. Therefore, you are wrong.
Problem: B has misrepresented A's claim by falsely suggesting that A claimed that only sunny days are good, and then B refuted the misrepresented version of the claim, rather than refuting A's original assertion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy

[Travesty]

So I translate this as "I see your point, but I'm going to choose to ignore it so I can continue to argue."

Then you need to work on your translation skills, since that's not at all what I said.

This style of powerleveling existed well before 1.19. The link system actually tilted things in favor of traditional partying because the rate of exp gain feels worthwhile.

No, this style of powerleveling absolutely did not exist before this patch lol. Exp gains diminished when another player over a certain level was in your party. What do you think, all of Yoshida's comments on powerleveling in 1.19 were about something already in the game?

[Sephr]

I find it amusing that a lot of the same people that are whining about power leveling are the same people who like to whine in all the auction house threads about how they want to be able to buy stuff right from the menu.

My instant gratification is good. Your instant gratification is evil.

Wha...? I don't see the relationship between the two at all.

Buying items should be instant because, unless you want to be heavily involved in the economy, you should be able to get what you need and then go do fun stuff rather than get bogged down in crappy poorly implemented systems. The levelling process isn't an inconvenience unique to this game and largely seen as a flaw by definition to many RPG players. Personally it's part of the fun for me to have a character grow over time.

If the levelling process had more content and stuff like level syncs I don't think people would be so concerned about rushing to the final cap as there'd be more to do. I think if PLing was balanced so it didn't give such a HUGE advantage over regular levelling it would be fine, just make it so that it roughly gives the same exp per hour as what you'd expect from a normal party or whatever.

I do think side-kick systems are the best way to get around these problems though, being able to buff a friend's level up temporarily or reduce your own seems like a more fun solution than one player doing all the work for another.

Basically:

"People should only be allowed to enjoy the game the way I think they should enjoy it."

I don't really see how that's what he was saying. I think there's more concern that anything below the max level will become irrelevant, making it an unenjoyable experience for new players who'll be pretty much on their own 1-50. What's the point in having levels at all if everyone's maxxed so quickly? It removes a sense of progression and development, we might as well all just have a text menu on screen, queue for groups to instances/battlegrounds and ignore the rest.