I might get hate or banned but hey w/e

[Alistaire]

I could damn kill for a "dislike" button on this board. This is such a condescending reply completely devoid of any interest in opening dialogue.

There doesn't need to be any dialogue. It's pretty much the perfect retort to what I was replying to and why that guy's attitude is terrible.

edit: Also that's not what condescending means.

Condescending is when you explain what things mean to a person in a way that assumes they don't know what it means when they should.

Kind of like how that last sentence would be, if you hadn't just proved you didn't understand what condescending means.

[Gemina]

XI had up to Chains of Promathia on pack in its first three years. Most of the issues pertaining to the game were 'resolved' within the first year. The game added more and lasting content, where as XIV with HW alone, not so much.

I accept the two as completely different games. However, that does not mean I want to accept the sinking ship that is XIV because they wish to 'play it safe'. No one ever achieved greatness by playing it safe.

As for the dangerous open world in XIV...Why not? Least it would make the world "slightly" more alive in my opinion. Wouldn't be able to just ride by with my head in the clouds.

I'm going through 2.x right now, and it is very reminiscent of XI through Chains, though nowhere near as difficult. But in terms of story, it is really awesome and I am really enjoying it. It lasts for me because I don't rocket through the content like a lot of other players, which is something that I think needs to taken into consideration when it comes to lasting content. I don't necessarily blame the devs here. When there is 100 MSQ's between Ultima and Ishgard, it's difficult for me to say the content isn't lasting content. I can't speak for HW but I know players speed through this as well.


I'm willing to compromise with dangerous open world content if they keep it reasonable. It should be challenging if there is a purpose in that particular zone, but if you're just trying to get from point A to point B, having your path literally blocked off by regular mobs is ridiculous. Not being able to solo a regular mob the same level as you is ridiculous. You shouldn't need high level help for that. The strongholds are a joke though, but I believe they used be more challenging and got nerfed. High level help was needed to get through those areas, and it seems that it was frowned upon. But could you imagine trying to get your rank up with the beast tribes if you need to group to traverse those areas? Total sh*t fest. This I assure you.

And I wouldn't call XIV a sinking ship just because your enjoyment isn't what it once was. Many subscribers are still well aboard, with new people joining all the time.

[LineageRazor]

FFXI's dangerous open world areas were fun - but mostly because there were easy ways to navigate those dangerous areas with some degree of safety. Stealth spells and items were widely available to players, and these items made it relatively easy to navigate dangerous areas. There were a few monsters in the game that were unaffected by stealth items and spells, but these critters were generally located in places that players had no reason to go to solo anyway.

In this game, adding areas that are genuinely dangerous could wind up being frustrating, since there'd be no way to navigate them without grabbing a bunch of friends to slowly and wretchedly fight your way through! This could be remedied by adding consumable stealth items to the game, like Invisibility Potions or whatever, and making them non-functional in dungeons or any other place that it was felt would be abusable.

edit: Also that's not what condescending means.

Actually, YOU are wrong about what condescending means, or at least your variant is incomplete. From Dictionary.com:

adjective

1. showing or implying a usually patronizing descent from dignity or superiority:

In other words, speech or attitude that indicates that you hold the one you are addressing to be beneath you. Explanations don't have to be a part of it - though certainly they can be, if you deign to explain things to the lesser being you're addressing.

Your original quote that Windi was criticizing, AND your criticism of Windi were both reeking of condescension, no doubt about it!

[Dement]

What do you mean by a "happy medium"?

Balance is hard. I know tons of people who have dungeon phobia because it's too hard or don't want to do anything because it's hard. If the world is hard, they'd surely quit. This game is really easy to pick up and play. So anything with a challenge too great for people will drive them away or prevent them from doing it. There are people who never touched Gordias NM and 24man because of difficulty. There are people who ONLY craft/gather.

..anyway, if they made beast tribe areas harder, they'll probably be less players doing it from fear of the difficulty. SE doesn't want content to not be played because something is too hard or inconvenient. So they nerf it.

That said, I'd love if the oh-so dangerous beastmen put up more of a fight. Once you're lv47 you can beat everything in a stronghold.

HW strongholds literally serve no purpose. : / It's silly. The tribe quests don't have you do anything there.

I guess I don't see it as hard to balance. Not every area of every zone has to be so hard you die the second you step into it. On the other hand not every section of every zone has to be faceroll easy to the point that the only real problem in game is when I get aggro while I'm gathering a node and that's just an inconvenience.

People's dungeon-phobia usually has less to do with the challenge than it does with their perception of being judged by their party. Even if they truly are afraid of challenges, I highly doubt they'd quit the game if 2 islands in Sea of Clouds or the beastment strongholds, or even the Allagan ship in Azys Lla held some modicum of challenge.

[Keramory]

But in terms of story, it is really awesome and I am really enjoying it. It lasts for me because I don\\'t rocket through the content like a lot of other players, which is something that I think needs to taken into consideration when it comes to lasting content. I don\\'t necessarily blame the devs here. When there is 100 MSQ\\'s between Ultima and Ishgard

And honestly I think most will agree with you in terms of Ffxiv story and content of story. It\\'s good. Even if you don\\'t like the theme personally they put a lot of time and detail into it. HOWEVER as you said, most, including myself blasted through it. Is that the devs fault though? Yes, because you are able to completely blast through it. If you put no value in obtaining something (sales 101), there\\'s no value in it. In ffxi we remember the story cause each cutscenes was such a big reward for our hard work

[Vivi_Bushido]

Ya but it not the XI players QQing, it the new age gamers/kids

I would have to disagree.

The XI players were once new age gamers/kids themselves now with jobs and families taking care of responsibilities. They don't have the time to enjoy the grinds as much as they use to. Also. Unlike the new age gamers and kids, the XI fans have far more MMORPG experience under their belt always making comparisons to older titles about how this game should be more like their childhood favorites. If anything, the old age gamers are likely complaining far more than the new age gamers with always trying to say how this game needs to be more like FFXI and WoW. New age gamers having played neither will think this game is fine the way it is, as it's most likely their first MMORPG. Just like how FFXI was the first MMORPG for many veteran gamers. This talk of people enjoying the grinds of XI and saying this game needs to be more like it is basically the same as an old person preaching, "Back in my day! We had ---!" Therefore, yes, the XI players are QQing, and rather quite often.

[Welsper59]

I would have to disagree.

The XI players were once new age gamers/kids themselves now with jobs and families taking care of responsibilities. They don't have the time to enjoy the grinds as much as they use to. Also. Unlike the new age gamers and kids, the XI fans have far more MMORPG experience under their belt always making comparisons to older titles about how this game should be more like their childhood favorites. If anything, the old age gamers are likely complaining far more than the new age gamers with always trying to say how this game needs to be more like FFXI and WoW. New age gamers having played neither will think this game is fine the way it is, as it's most likely their first MMORPG. Just like how FFXI was the first MMORPG for many veteran gamers. This talk of people enjoying the grinds of XI and saying this game needs to be more like it is basically the same as an old person preaching, "Back in my day! We had ---!" Therefore, yes, the XI players are QQing, and rather quite often.

It's honestly not so much that one side is more than the other. People in general, regardless of age or experience, spout closed minded drivel about what is the right and wrong way to do something. From what I can tell, at least by ratio of seeing personally, most of the "back in my day" chatter comes in response to QQ by other players. Whether or not those folks are also XI/WoW vets is unknown and irrelevant on that aspect. Sure, we have the topics that are about what would be good to see in this game, but those are closer to general wants than they are complaints, although they do go hand in hand sometimes. Depending on the content of the topic, I really don't see too many QQ threads referencing old games as a form of straight up complaining, unlike the QQ threads that pop up frequently demanding things, not having any reference to XI/WoW/etc.

The new age gamers that's being singled out here are of the new age mentality. These are the ones who actually read Yoshida's statement about meeting players lagging behind and him picking up the slack for them as a laughable matter and just outright question why someone would find that acceptable. Even some people of old school mentality may find that difficult to understand. Both parties have similar thinking people. I just look at it like those specific type of old timers essentially paved the way for the new age of first world complaints. What was highly regarded as improper or illogical then, is seen as acceptable now (though maybe not endorsed).

[Magic-Mal]

HOWEVER as you said, most, including myself blasted through it. Is that the devs fault though? Yes, because you are able to completely blast through it.

This is wrong. That's almost like saying it's not your fault for robbing that person because you found a way to hack their security codes. It's their fault for allowing you the chance of hacking.

It is entirely on you if you blow the story and content then run out of things to do. Just like it is entirely on you if you try to complete a 4 month grind in 2 days and suffer burnout.

No one is telling you to rush the story except yourself. Which is your choice. You run out of content, that's your consequence.

[FoxyAreku]

Ew, that nostalgia-filled article?

That writer should get a write-up honestly, very poor and overly-biased look. XI was great for its time, but by todays standards, and even the standards of people who don't have the means to play a game like a second job, it was horrible. People need to accept that those days of MMOs are gone for good.

[Welsper59]

This is wrong. That's almost like saying it's not your fault for robbing that person because you found a way to hack their security codes. It's their fault for allowing you the chance of hacking.

It is entirely on you if you blow the story and content then run out of things to do. Just like it is entirely on you if you try to complete a 4 month grind in 2 days and suffer burnout.

No one is telling you to rush the story except yourself. Which is your choice. You run out of content, that's your consequence.

I couldn't help but think of this scene from Arrested Development with the statement you quoted.