Something need to be done in how tanks acquiring Provoke

[Coratanni]

It takes almost no time to get a class to 22. I've gotten three toons to level THM to 26 so i could access swiftcast and I HATE Black mage. I have no sympathy for those who won't put the effort in to just level gladiator to 22.

[AnaviAnael]

I'm with Coratanni. With the changes they've made to experience gain, there is no excuse to not get cross class skills. Just spend a little time each day and you'll be there eventually. I didn't enjoy leveling lancer for Blood for Blood, but in the end I'm glad I did.

[Granyala]

If you ask me, the whole "You need to partially level another class you're probably not even interested in in order to not gimp your character." should go away.

It's simply un-fun, bad design.

People that defend the system while turning around and admitting "I didn't enjoy leveling... " boggle my mind. This is a game. We play for enjoyment. If the game makes us do stuff we don't enjoy that means the game FAILED on it's primary mission to provide fun.

[Sicno]

I'm with Coratanni. With the changes they've made to experience gain, there is no excuse to not get cross class skills. Just spend a little time each day and you'll be there eventually. I didn't enjoy leveling lancer for Blood for Blood, but in the end I'm glad I did.

It's not as much as it being a pain to lvl up. It's more that with all the buffs and handholding that lets new players go smoothly through the game it may be easier for new players to get to the ARR and HW endgame content, join an instance and then when asked about why they're not tank-swapping "Whoops! I don't know what you're talking about / I had no idea that I needed that".

[Arrius]

It's not as much as it being a pain to lvl up. It's more that with all the buffs and handholding that lets new players go smoothly through the game it may be easier for new players to get to the ARR and HW endgame content, join an instance and then when asked about why they're not tank-swapping "Whoops! I don't know what you're talking about / I had no idea that I needed that".

Just like any other role in the game, people should give research and look up their classes/jobs they wish to play. Especially so on tanks, as they require more attention, experience and focus on handling fights in dungeons, trials and raids compared to the other roles.

If people don't understand how the tanks work or aren't willing to check for information about their role, then they will learn about it in duties the hard way.

[Zojha]

Just like any other role in the game, people should give research [...]

IMO, if a game requires you to do that, it's badly designed. I don't think people should learn to spoil themselves in advance via wikis and guides "the hard way", but rather that people should be provided all the tools they "need" on the way. External information IMO should be the domain of optional things - secret cutscenes and other such goodies.

[LineageRazor]

If the game makes us do stuff we don't enjoy that means the game FAILED on it's primary mission to provide fun.

This is a MMO. Delayed gratification is a central part of the MMO paradigm. You do many, many things that aren't fun - that could be considered WORK, even - for the satisfaction and gratification that in the end you've improved your character. Cross-classes are only a single, TINY example of this phenomenon. Grinding Tomestones, grinding FATEs for Atmas and Crystals, grinding trials and raids for gear, grind, grind, grind - there's a direct correlation between spending time doing things you don't like and boosts to your character's power, appearance, skills, etc.

It's a dangerous addiction, to be honest, that feeling of putting in work and actually getting tangible results out of it. For many people, much more satisfying than work in real life, in which they can put in hours of work and feel like they've accomplished nothing.

At any rate, if you can't get behind doing unfun things now for the promise of fun things later, MMOs are not a great genre for you! And in the case of what's being discussed in this thread, leveling GLD for Provoke is barely even a puppy grind compared even to something as basic as Tomestone farming. There's no excuse for not taking an afternoon to do it.

[Arrius]

IMO, if a game requires you to do that, it's badly designed. I don't think people should learn to spoil themselves in advance via wikis and guides "the hard way", but rather that people should be provided all the tools they "need" on the way. External information IMO should be the domain of optional things - secret cutscenes and other such goodies.

Many MMO's let you limit yourself on one class per character; in FF14 however you can be the Jack of all Trades and the Master of All. As it is the same with the Disciplin of War/Magic - You can just go by when sticking to one class and only one, though you will be limited much if you don't spread out your effort to get all the optional things.

It isn't different than being a successful crafter here : If you want to work with the recipes of highest difficulty, you need to have close to all DoH jobs maxed out in their level. And I do believe the complexity of those crafts require you to actually have spreadsheets, websites and premade macros ready.

So why should the DoW/DoM have it easy when the crafters/gatherers need to make such lengths to be even remotely efficient?

[Zojha]

It isn't different than being a successful crafter here[...]

Who also are rather badly designed IMO. In large, because of the cross-class requirements, but worse, because those cross-class skills are the only skills unique to the respective class, leading to extreme homogenization - every crafting job plays the exact same. IMO, every crafter should have unique gameplay/rotations and not require any cross-class skills to be efficient at their job.

So...yeah. I stand by my sentiment - external research should never be required. It unfortunately is, I agree, but it shouldn't.

[Sicno]

Just like any other role in the game, people should give research and look up their classes/jobs they wish to play.

Yeah, but some people are just lazy. Still, the fact remains that it's going way outta the way for getting a gameplay mechanic that is mandatory in later content.

If people don't understand how the tanks work or aren't willing to check for information about their role, then they will learn about it in duties the hard way.

Yeah, and 7 more people will be mad about it.