Forcing NA Duty Finder to be better, we need a grading system.

[Underdog2204]

Ok fine so we can agree on somethings, just stating you skip expert (you said roulettes) would've been all that was needed ages ago. Even then all the content all the way upto expert is pretty much speedruns and farm's. Not exactly what I call brilliant in terms of teaching newbies things.

Maybe "making fun of" isn't the correct way to put it, it's more poking fun at little mistakes people do. Healer forget to heal the tank? Talk about how horrifc the experience was blood everywhere and you'll need about 10 beers to calm down afterwards etc.

Ofc I care about my group that's why I'm the way I am with them. The question is do you? Do you take any proactive steps to not judge those you are playing with because they don't meet your standard? Do you do anything to make the run more enjoyable apart from doing your job? I work my butt off (making things go BOOM!) and try to take the helm when it comes to openining them up a bit for conversation and the vast majoirty I come across are willing to respond in kind. The community is not this robot people make it out to be and should be a certain way, it's a massive blend and I love it that way. I don't care if your deepz is low if we are having a laugh, it's cool if it's high and you don't wanna talk, it's amazing if it's high and you like talking too.I'm not going to get that 3rd choice all the time and I'm perfectly happy with that.

I don't see how dps parsers are going to make people all of a sudden not become speedrun drones, I only see it enhancing the problem. The difference between our communities and Japan's is one thing, ours goes running to SE to fix our problems were as Japan just deals with it and fixes it themselves. This thread is just another example of running to SE because NA/EU have a slight problem.

[thegreatonemal]

Forums are generally where people come to complain this wasn't their intended purpose but in practice that's what they become this forum and the reddit pages are well known for their dislike of the DF and anyone not preforming in the 90+ percentile for their role in every single thing they do. so unless the posters of reddit and this forum numbers in the millions that play this game all over the world and the fact that not every thread. if this was a larger issue everyone would be feeling it. You might sit there with a paraser in a dungeon and if they aren't hitting 1800 dps you consider them below you and slowing down the run. but again that's you and the very small amount of people who think like you in that regard.

If this was truly on the scale you think it is then way more people myself included would be here trying to make their voices heard on the topic we'd all be experiencing very slow runs time after time it would be the average and not the few times that is it.

[Kaurie]

Ok fine so we can agree on somethings, just stating you skip expert (you said roulettes) would've been all that was needed ages ago. Even then all the content all the way upto expert is pretty much speedruns and farm's. Not exactly what I call brilliant in terms of teaching newbies things.

Maybe "making fun of" isn't the correct way to put it, it's more poking fun at little mistakes people do. Healer forget to heal the tank? Talk about how horrifc the experience was blood everywhere and you'll need about 10 beers to calm down afterwards etc.

Ofc I care about my group that's why I'm the way I am with them. The question is do you? Do you take any proactive steps to not judge those you are playing with because they don't meet your standard? Do you do anything to make the run more enjoyable apart from doing your job? I work my butt off (making things go BOOM!) and try to take the helm when it comes to openining them up a bit for conversation and the vast majoirty I come across are willing to respond in kind. The community is not this robot people make it out to be and should be a certain way, it's a massive blend and I love it that way. I don't care if your deepz is low if we are having a laugh, it's cool if it's high and you don't wanna talk, it's amazing if it's high and you like talking too.I'm not going to get that 3rd choice all the time and I'm perfectly happy with that.

I don't see how dps parsers are going to make people all of a sudden not become speedrun drones, I only see it enhancing the problem.

Well said.I agree that newbies are not taught well in this game. I think a big issue is the massive spikes in difficulty. Instead of something gradual that shows you how to do something easily, and then makes it a bit harder and then a bit harder, the dev team seems to just throw mechanics in at top notch at seemingly random intervals. It results in a very poor teaching method.

That said, I don't think that is the issue. DPS skills are given quite intelligently with job/class quests that make you use them, and their given to you in order and even light up to do appropriate combos. Doing simple rotations should be easy for anyone that pays at least a little bit of attention. That is all we need really. However, when a level 60 in 200+ gear does 500 DPS, they're obviously not doing a simple rotation.

I appreciate your attitude towards your groups, and I am somewhat similar. A slow run can definitely be improved with some fun banter or chatter. Unfortunately, most groups are usually quite quiet. As I mentioned, I find a lot of fun in doing my best, so I'm usually hammering out my rotation as best as I can. That leaves little room for me to initiate that conversation.

I must say though, that while I don't care if a DPS is say 1000 instead of 1800, I do care if they are 500 instead of 1800.

DPS parsers would do two things. Most specifically, they would allow conversations of DPS and thus result in peer pressure to improve. This can be done maturely and it can be done immaturely. I believe that most people are quite mature and would be able to handle it, while the fewer immature people would get reported and/or kicked. Conversations can be had such as, "Hey SMN, on that trash pack you only had 600 DPS vs my 3000, what kind of rotation are you using?". Second, that SMN in my example could see for themself that DPS discrepancy. it's quite possible up until that point, he had no idea his DPS was so low. He may have gone through all the roulettes getting caried and just assumed the single player duties were designed to be incredibly difficult. It's possible that when he saw that he was doing 600 vs another's 3000, that he might ask for help. He might go online to ask? He might just practice on a dummy. It's also possible he'd do nothing and continue on. The idea is that some people would improve, not all.

Forums are generally where people come to complain this wasn't their intended purpose but in practice that's what they become this forum and the reddit pages are well known for their dislike of the DF and anyone not preforming in the 90+ percentile for their role in every single thing they do. so unless the posters of reddit and this forum numbers in the millions that play this game all over the world and the fact that not every thread. if this was a larger issue everyone would be feeling it. You might sit there with a paraser in a dungeon and if they aren't hitting 1800 dps you consider them below you and slowing down the run. but again that's you and the very small amount of people who think like you in that regard.

I feel you are mistaken on the number of players. The most recent census placed it at around 700,000 characters, and that doesn't account for players having alts (my buddy has 6 alts lol) so it's far more likely around 600k players. That said, obtaining information from the forum and reddit is biased. You are completely right, and not all of my reasoning was based solely on them. That said, they are also a source of information and support my argument. Do you have any sources to backup yours?

I do appreciate that you added the words might and may. However, I do not think people are below me. I'm actually highly competitive and prefer it when I am the top DPS. That said, when DPS are pulling less than the healer/tank, that is when it is a concern, imo.

[Cakekizyy]

Appropriate lengtgh in my view is anything up to the entire timer length.

[Underdog2204]

That I can agree 100% with.

As a dps it's very difficult to judge how well you are performing outside of how something "feels". The issue with that is if you are used to things being killed slower than your rotation would actually allow if done decently then there is zero way to notice.

The learning curve has been quite funny since release, in 2.0 Brayflox was a massive spike that people struggled to deal with because before then it's basically a faceroll. So i can see some improvements being made in that regard.

I can see an argument being made for personal parsers but when the group can see and set numbers to individual performance then it can become a problem. BRD pull higher numbers on average than a MCH on a certain fight = MCH out, repeat for all dps. The problems arn't just with people's attituded towards each-other with parsers, it's balance in general.

[thegreatonemal]

There are 95,133 subscribers to the reedit forum only 755 of them are online at the time of this post and looking at it right now not a single post complaining about the DF on the front page and that's not 95 thousand people to agree with your point of view. Technically every single person with a SE account has a forum profile so all 700k or so can post here and don't. How many of those actually post on both forums and complain about the duty finder? Yes My source is this very forum, reddit and the game at large you included if this was the big issue you claim it to be every single one of us would be feeling it lost more forum post would be made about it daily hell this one would be a hell of a lot bigger adding more people to the discussion(hell for the past few pages its be you, me and that other guy).

People can have alts they are all tied to one account so it still only counts as one.

You can be competitively minded nothing wrong with that just be aware this isn't a competitive game(unless your playing PVP) you shoulndt expect nor force a competitive system or way of thinking on a non competitive game.

[Kaurie]

There are 95,133 subscribers to the reedit forum only 755 of them are online at the time of this post and looking at it right now not a single post complaining about the DF on the front page and that's not 95 thousand people to agree with your point of view. Technically every single person with a SE account has a forum profile so all 700k or so can post here and don't. How many of those actually post on both forums and complain about the duty finder? Yes My source is this very forum, reddit and the game at large you included if this was the big issue you claim it to be every single one of us would be feeling it lost more forum post would be made about it daily hell this one would be a hell of a lot bigger adding more people to the discussion(hell for the past few pages its be you, me and that other guy).

People can have alts they are all tied to one account so it still only counts as one.

You can be competitively minded nothing wrong with that just be aware this isn't a competitive game(unless your playing PVP) you shoulndt expect nor force a competitive system or way of thinking on a non competitive game.

You are not providing any source for your claim. Your claim was that adding a DPS parser and allowing for people to discuss DPS would do the game more harm than the current system. I have yet to see anything you post back this up. You seem to be too caught up on the reddit posts thing. Did you even read my reasoning?

"People can have alts they are all tied to one account so it still only counts as one." I am not sure if you understood. There is a census that is done, which datamines the servers to find out the number of active characters who log in to the game - their levels/achievements etc. This only looks at characters, so one person who has multiple characters will be double counted. The census reported 700k, so the number is actually slightly less than that.

I haven't encouraged or forced competitive play on anyone, nor have I suggested anywhere that I have.

[thegreatonemal]

Neither are you if that's the case your only proof is that people don't like it because they make a forum post about it here and of reddit so it most be a large problem to the community that's your argument. My counter to that is they make up a small part of the community as shown by the number of reddit subscribers along with your census data and the low amount of thread about this topic on either. Now if your looking for hard numbers for neither of us will find any for either argument unless you wanna track down the a good percentage of the player base to get a decent sample be my guest.

As for the bit about your competitive nature you are the one that brought it up and we've already established that you are bugged by people not doing their upmost in a dungeon run because it slows you down like its a race or something or sense you feel that if you're trying as best you expect everyone else should do the same.

[Lokier]

You are not providing any source for your claim. Your claim was that adding a DPS parser and allowing for people to discuss DPS would do the game more harm than the current system. I have yet to see anything you post back this up. You seem to be too caught up on the reddit posts thing. Did you even read my reasoning?

I think Yoshi-P doesn't allow in-game parsing because.. well, look at WoW; Any excuse to kick / belittle someone is used because of damage meter, he wants to avoid people being judged, or feeling judged, for what damage it is they're doing. If people want to eyeball their dps they can just download ACT and set that up, there's nothing stopping people... Well, unless you're not part of the PC master race, then you're on your own. :P
Besides, if people are so worried about what others are doing then they need to stop using D/F and start making statics to avoid playing with people "below" their standards. Start black-balling players for their terrible play-style via your realm (since you can blacklist and avoid these people for nexttime.)

There's plenty of solutions, and even then... Parsers don't make people better players. x)

[Ryel]

I think Yoshi-P doesn't allow in-game parsing because.. well, look at WoW; Any excuse to kick / belittle someone is used because of damage meter, he wants to avoid people being judged, or feeling judged, for what damage it is they're doing. If people want to eyeball their dps they can just download ACT and set that up, there's nothing stopping people... Well, unless you're not part of the PC master race, then you're on your own. :P
Besides, if people are so worried about what others are doing then they need to stop using D/F and start making statics to avoid playing with people "below" their standards. Start black-balling players for their terrible play-style via your realm (since you can blacklist and avoid these people for nexttime.)

There's plenty of solutions, and even then... Parsers don't make people better players. x)

People really need to stop saying this because it never has been nor ever will be true.

Watch this: WoW: Accessibility and Apathy

Additionally I love how the common response to avoiding sub par player performance in the duty finder is to "make a static" meanwhile we have tons of players arguing against adding content that has more meat or teeth to it because they "don't want to be required to have a static" to take part in it.

If the playerbase isn't able to improve then the level and types of content we have will never be able to branch out or change in design which will and has been leading to the game becoming very stale.

Also saying that using a third party tool that only one platform of a multi-platform MMO has access to in order for players to get performance feedback on their play is not a solution for the whole and is a tad insulting to the Ps3/Ps4 playerbase.