How would you change Nocturnal AST to be competitive against SCH?

[Rennies]

What? AST has 32 actions you'd want access to, 31 if you take off stella but then heavy has its occasional use. 30 if you find aero not much of a benefit vs malefic II (even though it's instant and less mp for the same potency) That's including the stances but 30 or even 29 actions means you need 3 bars anyway, and 32 actions doesn't make you need a 4th.

It'll just be awkward because I've grown super comfortable with what I have. If it happens, I'll definitely adapt to it, since I actually care about my performance in the game.

[Fernosaur]

One of the things that shows how bad nocturnal is, is the fact if you could change in combat there would almost never be a reason to.

I insist that it's only bad because you can only use either Noct or Di at a time in any given fight. Shield Oath sucks, but it is necessary for certain things: taking tank busters without heavy CDs and building and getting hate, but no one complains about having Shield Oath because it is a necessity of PLD and it does have utility for defense. It would be the same case with Nocturnal if sects could be switched during battle. You'd have on-demand instant barriers that are stronger than a regular Adloquium for TBs, an on-demand equivalent to Succor, and the capacity to be the "shields" healer for a party while also providing important HoTs by changing to Diurnal. To be honest, if you told me that I could put up regens while ALSO putting up instant shields throughout the same fight, I would think Nocturnal is the best shit ever.

If AST's offensive spells posed less MP consumption that made the class's MP manageable like Scholar's, ASTs would be able to tackle main or off-healer roles whenever they wanted, which is, I think, the point of this thread: changing Nocturnal Sect to be competitive against Scholar.

[technole]

To be honest, if you told me that I could put up regens while ALSO putting up instant shields throughout the same fight, I would think Nocturnal is the best shit ever.

If AST's offensive spells posed less MP consumption that made the class's MP manageable like Scholar's, ASTs would be able to tackle main or off-healer roles whenever they wanted, which is, I think, the point of this thread: changing Nocturnal Sect to be competitive against Scholar.

There isn't much complaint about Shield Oath nowadays because it's been buffed for PLD to do 15% less damage instead of 20% and changing tank stances no longer breaks combos, this is just to be more competitive to DRK.

You always have regen as a Scholar because of a fairy, and on-demand party regen AoE every minute with Eos. There is so much upside to Eos over Selene this Alex Savage tier in most phases. It wouldn't be too powerful at-all to have Noct have some sort of regen, even if it's cooldown-based. Lastly, AST has the lowest MP costs of spells of the healer, plus better MP refresh than White Mage now, so that isn't an excuse either.

[Valmaxian]

I wouldn't. I'd give up on trying to have AST compete with SCH, and make a 4th healer focused on off healing instead.

Having 2 main healers and 2 off healers is going to achieve better balance than trying to make AST compete with both WHM and SCH.

I think Squeenix bit off a bit more than they could chew with AST stances - they can't bring both up to WHM/SCH standards, or there would be no need for WHM/SCH. They either have to give AST the same utility at the cost of raw power, of give the power at the expense of utility just to maintain game balance. Personally, I wish they hadn't copied the HoT/Shield healing styles from the other healers and tried another mechanic for AST to truly set it apart, but hindsight...

[FoxyAreku]

Collective Unconscious : "Creates a wheel of fortune around the caster, granting Regen and the effect ot the following cards for any party member who enters and stay inside it. Can only be executed when a Sect is active. Auto-attack ends upon execution. Effect ends upon using another action or moving. When the wheel of fortune disappears, the effects disappear as well."

- Diurnal Sect : The Bole, The Ewer, The Spire
- Nocturnal Sect : The Balance, The Arrow, The Spear

Cure Potency : 150
Duration : 15 sec.
Cast time : instant
Cooldown : 180 sec
Radius : 10y

I really like this, but lordy is that overpowered.

[ty_taurus]

My biggest complaint about Noct AST is more about how it doesn't synergize with its own kit nearly as well as with Di AST. Here's why:

With Diurnal, TD and CO increase the time on my HoTs, meaning I can add an additional 20 seconds to a single ally for a stacked aspected benefic and helios, as well as my card effects and Wheel of Fortune.

With Nocturnal, Shields die as soon as they've been depleted, so there's really no value to that 20 second extension for AB and AH. Not only that, but those two shields don't stack with each other like Diurnal's does. I feel like no matter what you do, this glaring issue is what will leave Nocturnal in this position of "well we don't have a SCH so I guess I'll go Noct AST."

Maybe instead of the 130% shield return on AB, you get a 100% on AB and AH that can stack with each other. Imagine if the shields also regenerated in small segments, like a Shield-over-Time effect. That way, your buff extensions actually have a purpose on Noct AST's Shields.

[Alistaire]

It'll just be awkward because I've grown super comfortable with what I have. If it happens, I'll definitely adapt to it, since I actually care about my performance in the game.

I don't see how you do if you're saying that adding stance dancing mid combat would make you need to add an extra bar. Unless you're saying you run 3 bars with a variety of extra stuff like ethers, elixirs, and idk what else to take you to exactly 3 bars worth of actions (which I find unlikely). You're either doing that, or running 3 bars with blank spots (in which case it wouldn't be much of a change), or you're running 2 bars, which means you're deliberately ignoring actions and/or have macros that combine 2 things. Bad either way.

[Lucke]

Diurnal AST regens stack with WHM Regens, yet Noct AST shields don't stack with SCH (as far as I know anyway). What if Noct AST shields and SCH shields stacked with each other?

[Eisenhower]

My biggest complaint about Noct AST is more about how it doesn't synergize with its own kit nearly as well as with Di AST.

I agree on that point, but I have a variant solution in mind (I skimmed the previous pages, so I hope there's no repeats):

Have the nAST shields work with stacks, like how a boss can have several stacks of Dmg+ etc. When you use TD/CO on a shielded target, the target gains +X stacks of that shield's original value. Each stack would then replenish shields up to the original value if the shield is depleted before the timer runs out. For example:

1. Target is shielded for 100 HP
2. nAST uses TD, granting +2 stacks on the shield. Target is shielded for 100 HP, and the shields will replenish twice.
3. Target suffers 110 points of damage. 100 is mitigated by the shield and the target suffers 10 damage. The shield replenishes to 100 and two charges remain.

TD/CO would interact better with nAST, serving as utility abilities that improve the effect of an existing buff and improving mana efficiency.

[Erudito]

How about this? Change their entire DPS and card ability arsenal for something that its something that makes more sense, their placement in levels and their effectiveness of the buffs are questionable when the focus of the job is to keep people alive and healthy, we can't be gambling with that.

First, make switching sects during battle possible.

My changes to Diurnal:
Keep it as a regen, but reduce potency of HoT ticks as they count down. A slight increase to the first and second HoT ticks maybe, to keep it consistent in the numbers?

Collective Unconscious change for diurnal: Knock-back enemies that can be knocked back out of the field when it is cast and add a regen that starts with moderate potency and increases HoT potency as the ability ticks. Remove its shield effect. Regen effect does not reset if you leave and re-enter field. The duration of the field would have to be changed so that its not totally OP.

Changes to Nocturnal: Keep its shield property, maybe change its shield potency to 120% of amount healed and once the shield runs out or is broken, person that was shielded gets healed for a little bit.

Collective Unconscious changes for Nocturnal: Add a slow, or heavy, or even sleep effect to enemies inside the field, pick one. Reduces incoming damage by 20% or more while inside and once the field dissipates either because caster moved or timer ran out, everyone inside gets healed by a little bit. No regen effect. Again, duration of field would have to be changed.

That is what I would do with regards to the sects, please don't shoot me. I have other suggestions regarding everything else but I would be here all day.