Do YOU think we'll get a new Tank and/or Healer in 4.0? And vice versa.

[Morningstar1337]

En-spells....

I wish someone would sit down and write out how they think red mage would work without it treading on another job so much that we have two of the same jobs. Sit and think about it and I bet very few will come up with a working job for red mage

I'm gonna point out that the En-spells are the domain of the Magic Knight class, not Red mage unless the two were merged into one (something I see likely but still only happened in XI) The two have some similarities but are usually treated as different classes. So woudn't letting RDM have the En-spells be treading on Magic Knight (again)?

[Nyerieri]

I'm gonna point out that the En-spells are the domain of the Magic Knight class, not Red mage unless the two were merged into one (something I see likely but still only happened in XI) The two have some similarities but are usually treated as different classes. So woudn't letting RDM have the En-spells be treading on Magic Knight (again)?

Sorry. When I was discussing en-spells, I was thinking of XI since I believe they would follow down that path with some of their decision making since it is their only other MMO.

[Morningstar1337]

Sorry. When I was discussing en-spells, I was thinking of XI since I believe they would follow down that path with some of their decision making since it is their only other MMO.

I can see why, but since the devs seems to taking their Job inspirations from other games (AST was inspired by Tactics for example) and how different some classes are compared to XI (NIN can't tank, SMN in general, and DRG doesn't have pet dragons), I feel I must advise against using XI as the sole point of reference in this regard.

Speaking of NIN, I must ask what do you think the state of the DF would be if they only released DPS Jobs for 4.0?

[Nyerieri]

It would be a cluster mess just because someone wants to be the first person to say "I got the job to 60 first!" on the forum. That would be true for any job they added. A solution would be waiting a few weeks and not jumping right in .

I would be open to having a fair and open discussion about red mage (since that is the job I keep hearing people qq about) if someone could post a working template of the job (something similar to the Artist thread). Better yet someone could take all the ideas for red mage and compile them together then discuss the best ones and create a template off that! Most would rather just demand xyz job and let square figure it out, and not think about how it would effect the game overall. When they design a job, they never want to trample all over an existing job (most of the discussion here has been we're going to roll over paladin like a train for red mage). You have to remember square likes their comfort zone they are in right now. If black mage actually had half the spells it had in 11, I could -maybe- see them adding it as a hybrid but black mage has no where near the amount of abilities as compared to 11, so they can't give red mage too many of black mage abilities or it would feel like a black mage.

They also said a while ago they wanted to move away from the armory system, so I HIGHLY doubt we will see this job of being able to chose to que as a healer or tank since they didn't like the end result of arcanist.

The reason I suggested puppetmaster in particular is because it will add elements not currently in the game and wont trample over monk.


P.S. (since I know I will get flamed for maybe saying the above) Astrologian does not face roll over scholar or white mage. I know quite a few tanks that HATE getting stuck with astrologian healers since white mage or scholar is far superior healing wise.

If they were going to add red mage (and not ruin peoples immersion about red mage, since immersion has been discussed non stop in this section for the last month) the boat sailed during heavensward. They decided on astrologian so I doubt we will see red mage ever.

[Morningstar1337]

Okay, Maybe I can whip together a thread for RDM, at the very least it can get that topic off this topic so that it can shift to another potential Job

[Jim_Berry]

Introduce a support class or two or three.

I'd like versions of FFXI's BRD, COR, and even the original RDM (as a support class to serve to debuff mobs and backup heal).

[Jim_Berry]

I can see why, but since the devs seems to taking their Job inspirations from other games (AST was inspired by Tactics for example) and how different some classes are compared to XI (NIN can't tank, SMN in general, and DRG doesn't have pet dragons), I feel I must advise against using XI as the sole point of reference in this regard.

Speaking of NIN, I must ask what do you think the state of the DF would be if they only released DPS Jobs for 4.0?

In all fairness, NIN was released as a DPS in FFXI. The community made it a tank. Square-Enix then tried to make it DPS again by applying STR to gear later on, as well as abilities that allow for more damage (Innin).

We can definitely use FFXI as references considering that's where most of FFXIV players originated. I, myself, will ALWAYS look back to what FFXI opened the door for with FFXIV stuff.

[Zojha]

Speaking of NIN, I must ask what do you think the state of the DF would be if they only released DPS Jobs for 4.0?

Mhm...it miiight serve to enliven palace of the dead again at least, seeing as you can cram all those DPS in there for leveling :P

We can definitely use FFXI as references considering that's where most of FFXIV players originated.

Uhm...are there statistics on that? It goes against my own experiences - very few of the people I meet have played FFXI prior, but it might just be a biased sample.

[LineageRazor]

Maybe they can fix sprint to just be a cooldown instead of wiping out all TP. Because wiping out TP is dumb.

Or make it a dancer-specific job trait. The idea of being quick on your feet fits the Dancer image well.

Fleet-footed: Using Sprint consumes no TP.

Alternatively, DNC could have robust methods for recovering TP, something like BLM's Umbral Ice, except for TP instead of MP. They'd need some other kind of balance in place, though, in order to justify a healer who has no danger of ever running out of the resource they use to power their heals.

On the topic of Red Mage, there's plenty of room for it in this game, but folks that expect it to be multi-role are dreaming. It will most likely be a DPS, but it would not surprise me to see it as a front-line DPS rather than a ranged caster, mixing in short-ranged magical attacks along with sword attacks. It would likely use Rapier-class weapons. It may get a modest Cure ability as a nod to the classic jack-of-all-trades RDM, like a Job Ability heal on a three-minute timer - a welcome boost during times of stressful healing situations without putting it in any danger of competing with real healers.

Don't expect an overhaul of the Holy Trinity just to accommodate Red Mage!

[Lufir]

I don't see Red Mage fitting into FFXIV. In most FF titles, they just use a few unique debuff spells, could equip both swords and daggers, and then learn the same spells as white and black mage but at higher levels. In FFXI there was essentially no defined roles (pre-Abyssea when the game was great), but Refresh and Paralyze/Slow debuffing was really the most useful thing about Red Mage in a party environment. If a party needed a healer, RDM could definitely fill the spot. However, they were never able to fill a DPS slot due to their weak melee hits and spells. Enfire, Enthunder, etc. were useless in parties and their Black Magic was just as bad. By the time Red Mages got tier III black magic, Black Mages were pumping out tier IVs.

In FFXIV, we have defined roles, which makes things even weirder for Red Mages since they are supposed to be a Jack-of-Trades who historically had an arsenal of white and black magic. Buuuut! If Yoshi-P and team do decide to implement Red Mage, I think they will take on the same role as BRD and MCH, but will be in melee range. Refresh could be their Mage's Ballad/Promotion. And who knows, maybe they will have the standard three-skill combo that mixes sword and black magic (Burning Blade > Firaga > Red Lotus Blade) while giving them a very high MP cost cure spell like Paladin's Clemency.