Make FFXIV more like FFXI and less like WoW!

[Brannigan]

Why would anyone smash their heads against something brutal when they can take the easy road, even if it takes more time?

Yes, I agree - raids do need better rewards.

[loreleidiangelo]

Yes, I agree - raids do need better rewards.

I've always wondered if the introduction of Oil/Sand of Time into the 24-man raids was an intended design, or if it was added in response to community outcry. Were people REALLY that upset that raiders had 10 whole item levels over them? I couldn't even be arsed to finish a full set of 230 before I nope'd out of this game again, and I can't really say I'm really worried about being "unable to complete future content" or anything like that.

[Brannigan]

...
Were people REALLY that upset that raiders had 10 whole item levels over them? I couldn't even be arsed to finish a full set of 230 before I nope'd out of this game again, and I can't really say I'm really worried about being "unable to complete future content" or anything like that.

Yeahhhh it's pretty stupid. People like to justify it by saying stuff like "well you can only get best in slot by raiding" but so what? Best in slot vs worst ilvl 240 in slot parses to than 100 DPS difference for my paladin, and that was without adding materia to my crappy parry items. The difference should be even smaller for DPS classes and healers because all of their items actually have damage stats. Also the 245 weapon added 13 dps over 240.

Basically you don't get shit from raiding. It's always been this way with regard to stats, but now you don't even get unique looking gear or get to see unique areas. Instead you get a lolminion and the ability to dye gear. Yeah, that's what motivates people to raid.

FFXIV has no vertical progression. It's a series of very short ladders. You get a new one every 6 months and it becomes much, MUCH easier to climb 3 months after that.

[Remus]

Yes, I agree - raids do need better rewards.

Of course they do. If you offer the top ilvl gear in 2 roads one hard and another easy people will pick the easy. Then SE wonders why the Raid community is so small in this game... There is nothing there to make people do it except challenge and sadly not everyone raids for challenge but most would for amazing loot. Where it shows that you put in a large amount of effort for this piece of content. In all honesty i'm not trying to be rude to anyone but majority of the people in this game are pretty lazy because they never need to work hard in the game to earn anything and Yoshi-p wonders why people's DPS has gone down with 3.x where everything is super easy except for Savage.

[Welsper59]

Of course they do. If you offer the top ilvl gear in 2 roads one hard and another easy people will pick the easy. Then SE wonders why the Raid community is so small in this game... There is nothing there to make people do it except challenge and sadly not everyone raids for challenge but most would for amazing loot. Where it shows that you put in a large amount of effort for this piece of content. In all honesty i'm not trying to be rude to anyone but majority of the people in this game a pretty lazy because they never need to work hard in the game to earn anything and Yoshi-p wonders why people's DPS has gone down with 3.x where everything is super easy except for Savage.

Well one thing to consider in regards to that is how quickly the next tier is introduced. While no one would seriously complain that fast content updates are a bad thing, I don't think the vast majority understands how that impacts the game in its current setup. Every 6 months for the next raid tier is actually VERY fast by conventional standards. You'll quickly move on to the next set of ilvl upgrades, which means that not only will you feel like the gear you get is pointless, but also that the catch-up game is needed just as often. "Needed" is appropriate there, unless your goal is to force players to do the old school progression crawl through each raid and dungeon tier to gear up enough to take on the next tier... which makes the 6 month update routine more of a burnout and de-motivation tool than anything else. It'd at least make crafted gear extremely quick sellers with very high demand (assuming no adjustments to minimum requirements to use).

I guess they could release the "catch-up" content when the next raid tier introduced. I think that's considered a normal thing elsewhere. It'd at least make people view the current ilvl game as less meaningless when you add 3 months to its lifeline. Keep in mind that that'd also mean you'd need to remove highest tier tomes from simple content like daily roulette, dungeons, PvP, and older extreme raids.

FFXIV has no vertical progression. It's a series of very short ladders. You get a new one every 6 months and it becomes much, MUCH easier to climb 3 months after that.

Isn't that still vertical? :P I mean, it could be a single step up, but it's still going up.

[Brannigan]

I guess they could release the "catch-up" content when the next raid tier introduced. I think that's considered a normal thing elsewhere. It'd at least make people view the current ilvl game as less meaningless when you add 3 months to its lifeline. Keep in mind that that'd also mean you'd need to remove highest tier tomes from simple content like daily roulette, dungeons, PvP, and older extreme raids.

This is exactly what they should do. Tomestones had flawed implementation from the start. People wanted tokens in 1.x to mitigate RNG, not to replace content. Tomestones (and easy mode raid drops) in their current implementation:

1) completely invalidate dungeon gear
2) make 24 man gear much less worthwhile since you can have multiple full sets of the same item level by the time it comes out
3) completely invalidate the previous raid tier

What is even the point of nerfing the previous raid tier and adding echo to it if the new easy mode and tomestones drop FAR superior gear? Basically nobody entered Gordias after 3.2 (not that I blame them with how terrible Gordias was).

[Shurrikhan]

This is exactly what they should do. Tomestones had flawed implementation from the start. People wanted tokens in 1.x to mitigate RNG, not to replace content. Tomestones (and easy mode raid drops) in their current implementation:

1) completely invalidate dungeon gear
2) make 24 man gear much less worthwhile since you can have multiple full sets of the same item level by the time it comes out
3) completely invalidate the previous raid tier

What is even the point of nerfing the previous raid tier and adding echo to it if the new easy mode and tomestones drop FAR superior gear? Basically nobody entered Gordias after 3.2 (not that I blame them with how terrible Gordias was).

Let me see if I've got this right then:

a. The token systems we see from HW primals are token systems done right.

b. Say what you about weekly caps and similar currencies, whatever you buy via those weekly tomes should not conflict with the value of other gear from the current patch or tier, nor the value of the highest level gear of the last tier.
(Perhaps this can be from some sort of upgrade system, or could affect something other than gear?)