stop copying idea's from ffxi (new jobs)

[Vaer]

I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall at this point, but whatever. By your definition practically every RPG ever created has had a job system. I'm talking specific about the flexible role changing done via selecting that job for that character within the Final Fantasy series. I've played every game in the series except for 12 & 13 (though I mostly watched my sister play X and X-2). But let me explain with the games I'm most familiar with.


FF4 clearly didn't have a job system, but you could say that it had jobs. Cecil was first a dark knight, then a paladin. Rosa was a white mage, Edgar a bard, Tellah a black mage, etc. These are fairly hard coded.

FF5 clearly had a job system. You could level up and utilize any of the jobs with any of the characters.

FF6 clearly didn't have a job system, but you could say that it had jobs. Terra was clearly a black mage, Sabin a monk, Locke a thief, etc. Through magicite you can give them new spells and stat boosts, it doesn't change the core of the character.

FF7 clearly didn't have a job system, but you could say that it had jobs. Tifa was clearly a monk, Cloud a fighter, Aerith a white mage, etc. With materia you can change a character's play style, but their core job remains the same.

FFX is bit muddy. While the sphere grid allows you to drastically change a character, the core of the character still remains intact. For example, no matter how you set up the grid, Yuna is always a summoner, Tidus is always a fighter, Lulu a black mage, etc. However, depending on your design, she can have a different focus. But I would still say this is more in line with the others than an actual job system.

FFXI clear has a job system. I doubt anyone is going to question that one.

Does that make my stance on the issue more clear?

I assume you mean characters that can switch to any job freely, if that makes it any clearer.

Going by that, other examples would be, X-2, you can change dress-spheres on the fly. FF Tactics, any character can switch to any class they have unlocked out of battle. The recently released FFXIII would also fall under this category...

[Corrderio]

Oh god not this arguement again.

[Delsus]

I feel like I'm banging my head against a wall at this point, over what essentially seems to be a difference in definition. By your definition practically every RPG ever created has had a job system. I'm talking specific about the flexible role changing done via selecting that job for that character within the Final Fantasy series. I've played every game in the series except for 12 & 13 (though I mostly watched my sister play X and X-2). But let me explain with the games I'm most familiar with.

FF4 clearly didn't have a job system, but you could say that it had jobs. Cecil was first a dark knight, then a paladin. Rosa was a white mage, Edgar a bard, Tellah a black mage, etc. These are fairly hard coded.

FF5 clearly had a job system. You could level up and utilize any of the jobs with any of the characters.

FF6 clearly didn't have a job system, but you could say that it had jobs. Terra was clearly a black mage, Sabin a monk, Locke a thief, etc. Through magicite you can give them new spells and stat boosts, it doesn't change the core of the character.

FF7 clearly didn't have a job system, but you could say that it had jobs. Tifa was clearly a monk, Cloud a fighter, Aerith a white mage, etc. With materia you can change a character's play style, but their core job remains the same.

FFX is bit muddy. While the sphere grid allows you to drastically change a character, the core of the character still remains intact. For example, no matter how you set up the grid, Yuna is always a summoner, Tidus is always a fighter, Lulu a black mage, etc. However, depending on your design, she can have a different focus. But I would still say this is more in line with the others than an actual job system.

FFXI clear has a job system. I doubt anyone is going to question that one.

Does that make my stance on the issue more clear?

Ok here is the op again for you:

I was disappointed when i heard about the new jobs, it makes me want to label ffxiv to ffxi-2

It mentions JOBS where do you see the term JOB SYSTEM??? why do you feel the need to throw this off topic with your arguments that all our posts are irellevent because we are taking about the job names.

There was no mention of a job system your argument is worthless because it is completly off topic.

[Jennestia]

Ok here is the op again for you:



It mentions JOBS where do you see the term JOB SYSTEM??? why do you feel the need to throw this off topic with your arguments that all our posts are irellevent because we are taking about the job names.

There was no mention of a job system your argument is worthless because it is completly off topic.

The OP mentioned jobs being from FFXI, people mentioned job systems because FFXI wasn't the only FF game to utilize said jobs as they're a FF staple.

Also:

There was no mention of a job system your argument is worthless because it is completly off topic.

The very fact the OP said implementing jobs would be copying FFXI makes this topic itself invalid.

[Delsus]

I was disappointed when i heard about the new jobs, it makes me want to label ffxiv to ffxi-2

The OP mentioned jobs being from FFXI, people mentioned job systems because FFXI wasn't the only FF game to utilize said jobs as they're a FF staple.

Also:


The very fact the OP said implementing jobs would be copying FFXI makes this topic itself invalid.

I completly agree with you, but Dreamer is that brought the whole system into the thread, when the topic was only mentioning the jobs before they came in.

[Gasher]

GASHER!!! hello dorksauce from carbuncle from Matsuya lol

Ooooh sheeeet! Son, you should know better than to insult your elders!

[Defmetal]

That's a lie, Monk was not in FF1.

It was Black Belt! And Warrior didn't exist either! It was Fighter!

... yeah all these jobs have existed long before ff11. I don't recall seeing puppetmaster before or corsair, but they were probably in tactics if anything.

These jobs simply make it feel like a "final fantasy"

[Bearforce]

sorry i wasn't clear on my first post in this thread but i will quote it again because i dont need to repeat myself

i know those jobs existed on different ff series but what i like about xiv is the new creativity like conjurer class and physical lvl job,in all honesty i dont like where patch 1.21 is going because its too similar to ffxi where you need to reach lvl 30 to unlock those new quests, just like xi was

[Felis]

But you don't need to level your job again. It would have always the same level as the class.
It's not the same job system like in FF XI, it's another job system

[whoopeeragon]

I wish instead of throwing a job system on top of what we currently have they had instead just worked on giving us the skills and flexibility needed to create those role-centric builds with the current system. The extra layer is completely unnecessary.

Except for the fact that with such a flexibility, NO-ONE will be creating role-centric builds. We already have that in the form of the armoury system; it’s already as diverse as they can let us become, and look at what happened. Neglected skills everywhere, elitists pounding for such and such, certain classes being valued over everything else because they can a jack-of-all-trades. That’s great for solo or small party plays, or when you want everyone to cover their own backside in the case of a major fail. The idea would be nice, to give more skills and flexibility, but the end result when you combine human nature with it? Won’t work out well.

The job system being an additional layer that doesn’t affect the armoury system is a nice touch. It WILL force role-centric builds and appearances, as well as boosting those particular attributes of a class. Being more specific will not only aid in keeping a party structure and organised; it also allows people to focus on a given role rather than be attacking one time, retreating and healing, or casting debuffs one time then having to nuke the other. That’s what the armoury system does at the moment. So the job system will LOCK that role in place, while giving additional benefits to make it appealing to use. No doubt that skills will be limited to your original class, as well as probably just a few others to make it fairer (e.g. Paladin getting all Gladiator skills as well as Cure spells from Conjurer branch). But it is necessary in the scheme of things to ensure ‘diverse’ ranges of combat and choices to emerge.

At the core, the armoury system can still improve heaps; it has a strong foundation, being an extended and branched version of the sub-job system of FFXI. It already has one improvement by being an on-the-fly type of class arrangements. The second major improvement is that it’s heavily player-driven; each individual can choose what they and link it to which ever class there is. This improvement is its weakness, because sooner or later, every elitist will start using specific skills which are the most beneficial suiting the armoury system. They can improve on that a bit by linking the classes together a bit more, crafting and gathering included. The armoury system is definitely capable of being a unique and diverse experience depending on the character’s choices, but it still WILL have that flaw subject to player manipulation.

Another major flaw is how the armoury system operates; it revolves around our weapon and not our abilities. Thus, each class will have only a limited selection to choose from, but in that selection we have different types (e.g. Conjurer have crooks, wands, canes etc). This locks in whatever role they had already; the rest falls upon the flaw of uber-diversity. Jobs can counter that easily, by either making Jobs wield more than one multiple weapon type, or extremely limited to make it especially specialised. For example, Paladins may be allowed to use shortaxes, Dragoons using poleaxes. Thieves will be limited to daggers and shortswords, but their job dictates as such for speedy performance.

The Job system will most likely be on-the-fly as well, but since it’s more limited, the boundaries between Jobs will be less blurred and more defined. It’s essential to be building up that role-centric environment outside of the Armoury system, which is already pretty defined in being diverse and all-rounded. Thus, the Job System is needed to ensure that there is an option for a limited, but extremely specialised form of appearances, skills and attributes, as well as having own unique and special abilities and gear. With the proper input, it can dispel the basis of classes on weapons, and instead focus on roles. It WILL allow for flexibility in gameplays, which is ultimately the true fault of the armoury system. It encourages a much more dynamic way of playing, while retaining the diverse nature that is purely FFXIV’s.

TL;DR Yes, the armoury system will have worked fine if it continued on, but it will always miss that ‘omph’ that specialised boundaries gave. Thus, the Job System, while remaining independent largely off the Armoury system, will work hand in hand to fix up its flaws, while introducing its own rules and appearances. It’s necessary if role-centric content was to be introduced later on, in which case, the Armoury system will most likely fail.

Also, Dreamer, it’s not the Job system people are arguing about. It’s the fact that Jobs themselves have appeared that has the OP distressed and sweating over such a deed. Yes, you’re right; the basic job system has only ever appeared in a few games. But if you broaden the basic job system to just ‘job system’, then only a few will have not had a clearly defined role system, which is basically what people are saying.

I think the only numbered game that DOESN'T have a job system at its very core is probably Final Fantasy VIII. That game was very much player-driven and magically attributed; jobs had no aspect in that. Otherwise, every other FF has had a job system at the very bottom foundation of its battle play.

~~~~~

Topic on hand: Go play another game that doesn't start with FF, my dear OP. Not to mention that it's not just looking at the name 'jobs', but also what they're being used as. Besides, copying good aspects from FFXI will greatly improve this game, and that's what we want, isn't it?