1 Materia makes any crafted item better than any NM/Raid/Dungeon item. Why?

[Medura]

I don't hate crafting but you people are ridiculous with your statements that somehow equipment made from regular world drops (which can be obtained by low levels in many cases), and gathering is somehow more arduous a task than getting a group of well coordinated people to do some of the hardest content in the game. Anyone can "farm" gathering for catalysts, and anyone can "farm" crafting to 50 in order to make gear it is an investment of time which should be rewarded, but the immediate difficulty of both is not prohibitive like DoW/DoM raid content.

Having craftable NM gear was a fine solution to include crafters, and throwing in some harvest-able mats pulls in the DoL. Something has to be done to bring in the upper tier DoM/DoW content too and make it rewarding. Either it needs special materia, better drops, tradeable gear, or something. It isn't acceptable just because you few people personally don't like group content to make it completely lacking of any reward.

Last time I checked crafters could always make money selling not best of slot gear to new players and casuals. Tthough honestly when was it ever the case in this game that crafters could not make at least some best in slot items for every class???

The people who do Ifrit, Beastman Strongholds, and even Darkhold most of them already have best in slot gear in order to complete such difficult content. They need rewards that are suitable and actually useful to them. Right now they have none and are better off getting full materia outside of endgame content, and then going to do that content.... for what? It is fun, but there is no reward they can get from them better than what they have right now until this issue is fixed.

So to recap:

1. They spiritbind, materia craft a complete set of optimal gear using nothing from raids/upper tier content
2. They go to Darkhold, they go to Beastman Stronghold, they kill Ifrit.
3. They get junk they have to throw away because it is 100% useless to them.

Working as intended? Did Yoshida/Square really think that raiders, the most dedicated players in the game to improving their characters weren't going to be the first ones to get 2-4 slotted Materia gear despite whatever risk/cost you tie to it if it was the best gear?

Noone has killed ifrit yet mate.

[Frein]

and where's the proof for your "widely proven" statement?


I got all my crafting level legitimately thank you very much, and it is insulting when people like you try to insinuate that every crafter who put the effort in to grind are all botters.

besides, going by your logic, we should also "rebalance" gathering and farming, since those can also be botted, hell, why don't we just get rid of everything other than dungeon boss fights?



or you can just admit that you hate crafting

Want me to PM you a link to a crafting bot? I think there's also a fishing bot there. There is no combat bot, however, and most definitely not one capable of group coordination and beating end game content.

Also, yes, I hate crafting. Doesn't everyone?

[Murugan]

Noone has killed ifrit yet mate.

What's your point?

[Raikki]

For those who haven't tried getting catalysts: It takes more farming for those than farming dungeons. And you also got the materia needed, and to gert forbidden materia craft you gotta add LOTS of materia to different gear. with a rate of 1 catalyst per hour you need x hours just to learn forbidden materia, then x hours for good materia to drop, then x hours for more catalysts. In these hours you could get about 3 whole sets of dungeon gear. Please, say one more time that materia crafts should be worse than the dungeon gear

The factor you're forgetting is skill/learning curve. One activity can be performed by any idiot (or an extremely simple bot) and one cannot. The number of people skilled enough to defeat Ifrit and obtain loot from him is much much smaller than the number of people skilled enough to grind spiritbond/farm catalysts. You want to reward effort exclusively, but that's not how the real world works. Skill matters, and it should be reflected in the balancing of rewards for skill-oriented content.

[SodaPop]

The factor you're forgetting is skill/learning curve. One activity can be performed by any idiot (or an extremely simple bot) and one cannot. The number of people skilled enough to defeat Ifrit and obtain loot from him is much much smaller than the number of people skilled enough to grind spiritbond/farm catalysts. You want to reward effort exclusively, but that's not how the real world works. Skill matters, and it should be reflected in the balancing of rewards for skill-oriented content.

Only about 2 people in the game need to demonstrate any kind of skill by formulating a workable strategy for killing new content like that everyone else just needs to not be mentally deficient and pay attention.

We really don't need more e-peen waving people who think they're superior just because they spend a lot of time on these things.

Only other time I can think of where skill would be involved would be to make up for someone else's screw up.

[Raikki]

everyone else just needs to not be mentally deficient and pay attention.

You can be mentally deficient and not pay attention and still grind spiritbond and farm catalysts. You just made my point for me.

We really don't need more e-peen waving people who think they're superior just because they spend a lot of time on these things.

Ironic because that's the entirety of the argument for materia gear being better: "we spent a lot of time on it".

[SodaPop]

Ironic because that's the entirety of the argument for materia gear being better: "we spent a lot of time on it".

It's exactly the same argument to say that Toto-Rak shouldn't have better gear than the Ifrit fight. Highest investment/difficulty equals highest reward. Nothing to do with e-peen at all.

[Mortikhan]

People are basing most of these arguments on the fact that the best materia are going to be available. Potency is going to be random. I do not expect (given the time investment) that we will see a massive amount of high end materia saturating the MWs anytime soon. Most are still replacing their Dated gear still. Making materia alone will deter most from actually getting involved in it. The price will be another. Lastly, materia will be lost at every new update...it cannot be reused. Once purged you will lose the materia. People are going to have to choose very wisely on how they invest their time and money to make these high end game sets...screwing up even once could mean MONTHS of setbacks.

I see the raid gear as a solid set that is better than anything normally crafted. While I agree that Raid gear should be good, I think crafted sets should be better. Some in this thread believe that the only argument crafters have is "the time invested". The time we invest is no different than the time invested mastering speed runs or the classes necessary to do them. It is no different than the time invested to make a raid run or killing a NM repeatedly to receive a drop. Those drops could come on the first drop or the 4546352 drop. The time sink for crafters is no different for materia gear. The difference really comes in the time invested in multiple classes to achieve a single goal. Making it through a raid requires 1 battle class for each person. Making a piece of materia requires 1 craft (make the object to be spiritbonded), 1 battle class (for grinding the selected piece to spiritbonded status) and 1 gathering class to farm catalysts (to convert the spiritbonded piece to materia). Without any guarantees on potency and the eventual loss of that materia since it can't be purged without losing it, I really can not see the comparison. If you are simply going to delegate crafters/gatherers to being the bitches that make materia for the "REAL" classes then just remove them from the game. Just make materia a farmable item and be done with it. Better yet let's go back to the FFXI way of NM farming end game things shall we. I could use a few more 1% drop rates in my life along with some new and improved claim bots. Mmmmmm yummy sounds great . If you think a 1 hour raid or a 30 minute NM comes close to the investment of time or difficulty of crafting/gathering then check out how many people have a full set of +3 gear as opposed to who has the drops from the Darkhold runs (a reminder that crafting has been around since game release and Darkhold less than 3 months). Bottom line is simple, if you want good gear do the raids. If you want the best gear you will either have to invest a lot of time and effort or a tremendous amount of gil and patience.

[Sol_Aureus]

For those who haven't tried getting catalysts: It takes more farming for those than farming dungeons. And you also got the materia needed, and to gert forbidden materia craft you gotta add LOTS of materia to different gear. with a rate of 1 catalyst per hour you need x hours just to learn forbidden materia, then x hours for good materia to drop, then x hours for more catalysts. In these hours you could get about 3 whole sets of dungeon gear. Please, say one more time that materia crafts should be worse than the dungeon gear

The thread isn't complaining about the forbidden materia crafting, it's the fact that slotting ONE piece of materia will far outperform NM/dungeon gear. ONE. The one that you have 100% chance to slot. Yes, getting catalysts take a long time, but spending 1 day stabbing fish and another day spiritbond grinding SHOULD NOT reward players MORE than a dungeon or fight that requires coordination, strategy, and skill.

[Jennestia]

What's your point?

No one has tested the strength of those drops plus the fight is damn hard without gear with proper materia. It's just like how FFXI was in a sense, in XI the better gear came from events while crafting was mainly consumables and alternatives and a select piece here and there (Haubergeon, Scorpion Harness etc) while in FFXIV the better gear comes from Materia infusion at present time.