(AST) i dont see any reason why i should use nocturnal stance >_>

[RiisWolf]

Also if a barrier protects worth the entire value of a poison than the poison wasn't a concern in the first place, and poisons and bleeds are where regens shine

I don't think you understand

Barriers can also protect from certain mechanics that require damage to be done to apply a nasty debuff....

Especially in Ozma's case. That bleed HURTS. The hit that applies the bleed does like 1.3K~1.5K of damage; the bleed's total damage is way more than that. I don't know how much cause as a healer I and many other do the next sensible thing if the barriers were too weak to prevent it, remove it immediately. I also mentioned they can prevent a certain monster's petrifaction, and the petrifaction does no damage. And Mistbeard's poison before the big party ride hit, doesn't hurt much really, but it can't be removed by anything other than death or the chests, and it reduces MAX HP, so people are going to be running for the chests, and I know I'd rather both DPS not be bothered by something easily prevented so that the fight ends faster.

[GeekMatt]

I don't think you understand

Especially in Ozma's case. That bleed HURTS. The hit that applies the bleed does like 1.3K~1.5K of damage; the bleed's total damage is way more than that. I don't know how much cause as a healer I and many other do the next sensible thing if the barriers were too weak to prevent it, remove it immediately. I also mentioned they can prevent a certain monster's petrifaction, and the petrifaction does no damage. And Mistbeard's poison before the big party ride hit, doesn't hurt much really, but it can't be removed by anything other than death or the chests, and it reduces MAX HP, so people are going to be running for the chests, and I know I'd rather both DPS not be bothered by something easily prevented so that the fight ends faster.

These are good points that I wasn't aware of!

But since Diurnal is still comfortably viable in these circumstances and will increase my DPS and help me manage my MP better, Noct is still not the ideal choice. Again I love Noct and I'm not hating on those that choose to use it, it's just pretty much never the ideal choice for your party unless there's another AST in Diurnal.

[RiisWolf]

Yeah there are always some thing regens are better at than barriers, like healing over time.

[Pells]

I don't think you understand

Especially in Ozma's case. That bleed HURTS. The hit that applies the bleed does like 1.3K~1.5K of damage; the bleed's total damage is way more than that. I don't know how much cause as a healer I and many other do the next sensible thing if the barriers were too weak to prevent it, remove it immediately. I also mentioned they can prevent a certain monster's petrifaction, and the petrifaction does no damage. And Mistbeard's poison before the big party ride hit, doesn't hurt much really, but it can't be removed by anything other than death or the chests, and it reduces MAX HP, so people are going to be running for the chests, and I know I'd rather both DPS not be bothered by something easily prevented so that the fight ends faster.

This poison also lowers the damage you do. That's why the dps should be running for the chests.

[Fevelle]

If you're not going to the newest extreme trials or Savage, use whatever you feel like using on that moment. Content can be cleared with any of the Stances. i do hope AST gets revamped for 4.0 though.

[Teraluna]

If you're not going to the newest extreme trials or Savage, use whatever you feel like using on that moment. Content can be cleared with any of the Stances. i do hope AST gets revamped for 4.0 though.

So do I.
At present the conversations seem to center on whm v ast - as the classes are similar, identical in many respects.
Now the class has a good story line, and one that can possibly be expanded in the future.
But I would have loved the class to have significantly more differentiation.

Another ranged healer spamming individual and aoe heals, with less overall utility than the whm is not really what I was hoping for. Sure it can do the job - of course it can, it's got direct copies of whm abilities. There'd be a problem if those weren't doing the trick.

But we already have one of those - a good one, there since launch.

What we don't have is a third way of healing.
There are good examples of other types of healing elsewhere. The melee healer has been talked about, or a ranged heal thru damage class etc.

Now admittedly, a rework of the Ast is unlikely to be this radical a change. But it does need more differentiation. It shouldn't be whm v ast, it should be a true separate class with most of the skills being unique.

It has got the best looking (eso) hat in the game though

[FoxyAreku]

^But not this. Unless there's a specific need for the Noct utility, which would be a situation I've never encountered, there's no reason to nerf your DPS and MP management. If you want to play that way it's fine by me, but it's certainly not something I'd encourage for others. I mean you can argue that certain hardcore raids require it when paired with WHM, but as has been mentioned—SCH is basically a necessity (or at least it's a hindrance to not have one) and Noct doesn't stack with SCH, so unless you're doing things the hard way just to prove a point then it's a null argument.

....I wonder if you even read what I said?
Obviously, if you're paired with a white mage, then there wouldn't be a scholar in the group, so yes, in that situation you should be using noct stance.

Double regen is silly and aspected benefic shields makes tanks (and anyone who has to take damage via a mechanic)'s lives a lot easier.

Also as stated, it's very useful in fights like Ozma where you can prevent the bleed from happening. Scholar shields don't seem to be enough to block it without a crit-yet aspected benefic always does due to the 120% shield it gives.

[_slowpoke_]

Double regen is silly and aspected benefic shields makes tanks (and anyone who has to take damage via a mechanic)'s lives a lot easier.

Double regen gives more DPS uptime for both healers, is more MP efficient, and in the overwhelming majority of situations where you could shield damage from a mechanic, you might as well just heal it directly afterwards. That's what Essential Dignity is for. Still no argument for Noct.

Also as stated, it's very useful in fights like Ozma where you can prevent the bleed from happening.

So, you're gonna gimp yourself for an entire fight just because of a single mechanic that could just as well be handled by throwing up an AoE regen? Yeah, nah, still not an argument for Noct.

Scholar shields don't seem to be enough to block it without a crit-yet aspected benefic always does due to the 120% shield it gives.

A scholar doesn't need shields for this mechanic. A scholar simply presses their Fey Caress keybind and laughs while they keep DPSing.

[Nekotee]

This poison also lowers the damage you do. That's why the dps should be running for the chests.

If you want a dps increase
Only a heal is needed, he use sprint after locating all chest and get the 4 of them cleansing everyone while they dps

Pretty easy to do and my dps always thanks me because they can continu their rotation

[FoxyAreku]

Double regen gives more DPS uptime for both healers, is more MP efficient, and in the overwhelming majority of situations where you could shield damage from a mechanic, you might as well just heal it directly afterwards. That's what Essential Dignity is for. Still no argument for Noct.

So, you're gonna gimp yourself for an entire fight just because of a single mechanic that could just as well be handled by throwing up an AoE regen? Yeah, nah, still not an argument for Noct.

A scholar doesn't need shields for this mechanic. A scholar simply presses their Fey Caress keybind and laughs while they keep DPSing.

A shield+regen will give more dps uptime then a double regen that does nothing but overheal, it just works better in most situations. Ever done seph EX or nidhogg EX? If someone tried to do some silly double regen strat there they'd be kicked by any decent group because shields reign supreme.

Noct isn't 'gimping yourself', it's a different playstyle. It's fine if you don't like it, but encouraging people to play with double regens so the whole group has no shields for more EHP is just stupid, sorry to say, and you're going to have a lot more people dying to mechanics without shields than you would if you had them. The only time I'd ever suggest going diurnal with a white mage would be if the white mage was garbage.