(AST) i dont see any reason why i should use nocturnal stance >_>

[Fernosaur]

The healer meta is a cluster****, similar to the tank meta. SCH and WAR being absolutely necessary for progression because they're too good at filling a certain role, while the other two classes have to compete for the other position in a raid. I don't really see this changing any time soon.

On the bright side, even though Noct AST isn't really worth it in progression, that still doesn't render the class useless, as Di AST is an amazing healer that, imo, brings much more utility to the raid than WHM does. Compare this to the point in the meta where PLD was (erroneously imo) considered by all to be pointless and at least AST is in a much better place.

[FoxyAreku]

Nocturnal always when you're paired with a white mage or another astrologian.

Aspected Benefic-Nocturnal is also hella OP. An emergency heal on demand, no other healer can do that. DPS gets hit by something? Insta-shield, they're now fine! No other healer has such an easy time with emergency healing.

[GeekMatt]

The healer meta is a cluster****, similar to the tank meta. SCH and WAR being absolutely necessary for progression because they're too good at filling a certain role, while the other two classes have to compete for the other position in a raid. I don't really see this changing any time soon.

On the bright side, even though Noct AST isn't really worth it in progression, that still doesn't render the class useless, as Di AST is an amazing healer that, imo, brings much more utility to the raid than WHM does. Compare this to the point in the meta where PLD was (erroneously imo) considered by all to be pointless and at least AST is in a much better place.

^ This, completely

Nocturnal always when you're paired with a white mage

^But not this. Unless there's a specific need for the Noct utility, which would be a situation I've never encountered, there's no reason to nerf your DPS and MP management. If you want to play that way it's fine by me, but it's certainly not something I'd encourage for others. I mean you can argue that certain hardcore raids require it when paired with WHM, but as has been mentioned—SCH is basically a necessity (or at least it's a hindrance to not have one) and Noct doesn't stack with SCH, so unless you're doing things the hard way just to prove a point then it's a null argument.

[Nekotee]

I agree
Diurnal and whm pair very well in a pure healing fight
Like A1S where you only need mitigation for the jump and CU is enough
(Well in my case I did ran as diurnal with my whm pair because synastrie was perfection on prey)

Small edit : despite that it is only a few fight that allow that most of the time you need shield to provide a fake vitality boost ! Because it's always a dps increase to survive...

[Shikiseki]

I don't see why something has to 1-shot you before noct is useful? If you argument like that, you might as well disregard Scholar entirely too...

Anyway, the benefits of having shields in some fights are at hand. Doesn't even have to be hardcore super endtier encounters to make your life, your healing partner's life and the tanks life much easier. Have fun regenerating those double/triples at Chrysalis. Getting Akh Morn'd to the face without protection might hurt. Eating any kinds of orbs with an insta shield? Hell yes. DPS on double weakness? I can see regen being very useful here (lolnope).

And that "only" 130% shield makes AST shields far more reliable than the shield specialist, whose shield AoE is inferior too!

The huge advantage of AST is that you can even choose depending on the encounter/fights so don't lock yourself into the mindset that Diurnal is always better because frankly, it's not.

[RiisWolf]

Barriers can protect against mechanics where they ignore all damage reduction to wipe the victim's HP down to a certain percent, like the prey in sastasha hard and the cactaur A rank somewhere in thanalan.

Barriers can also protect from certain mechanics that require damage to be done to apply a nasty debuff. In recent memory, if the barrier blocks all of the damage a poison attack the final boss in hullbreaker hard does, then it will not poison the protected player, which is great for DPS and the healer so that they don't have to scramble for a potion chest. In weeping city, while in pyramid form Ozma's bleed AoE will not apply the bleed if the damage is completely blocked by a barrier, that way you have less bleeds to remove if any at all. An A rank in East Thanalan can't petrify you if your barriers are strong enough.

[Alistaire]

Barriers can protect against mechanics where they ignore all damage reduction to wipe the victim's HP down to a certain percent, like the prey in sastasha hard and the cactaur A rank somewhere in thanalan.

Barriers can also protect from certain mechanics that require damage to be done to apply a nasty debuff. In recent memory, if the barrier blocks all of the damage a poison attack the final boss in hullbreaker hard does, then it will not poison the protected player, which is great for DPS and the healer so that they don't have to scramble for a potion chest. In weeping city, while in pyramid form Ozma's bleed AoE will not apply the bleed if the damage is completely blocked by a barrier, that way you have less bleeds to remove if any at all. An A rank in East Thanalan can't petrify you if your barriers are strong enough.

...and for everywhere else, there's Diurnal stance.™

[GeekMatt]

Important to note: Shields are only a portion of what SCH brings to the table, and they aren't the highlight, unlike Noct where it is the highlight—at least when comparing to Diurnal. SCH and Noct are totally different.

The points being made in the last couple posts are based on content where a Diurnal AST would have no trouble whatsoever. So why nerf your DPS by swapping to Noct? Why further limit your MP? I love Noct, it's just that it's the lesser choice 99% of the time (any time Diurnal can handle it without much risk).

Also if a barrier protects worth the entire value of a poison than the poison wasn't a concern in the first place, and poisons and bleeds are where regens shine

[_slowpoke_]

I don't see why something has to 1-shot you before noct is useful? If you argument like that, you might as well disregard Scholar entirely too...

SCH brings more to the table than just shields. It's superior to N.AST in basically every regard. Better utility, better DPS, better mitigation, and yes, better shields.

Have fun regenerating those double/triples at Chrysalis.

Precast a single heal for the first hit, and you're fine. You do not need shields for even the triples. They are a waste of MP.

Getting Akh Morn'd to the face without protection might hurt.

The SCH in my static doesn't even heal during the first two Ahk Morns except for popping a Sacred Soil, and if you're talking Story mode, then lol.

Eating any kinds of orbs with an insta shield? Hell yes.

Waste of MP. There are basically no orbs in the game that insta-kill you without a shield.

DPS on double weakness? I can see regen being very useful here (lolnope).

That's what Stoneskin is for, if you really need it. No need to gimp yourself for the entire fight just because someone could die twice. Or, again, bring a SCH instead of the shitty excuse for it.

And that "only" 130% shield makes AST shields far more reliable than the shield specialist, whose shield AoE is inferior too!

For the situations where you need AoE shields, you deploy Adlos, and even a non-crit Adlo completely outclasses anything a N.AST can throw out. And again, you don't take a SCH purely because of the shields, but because it is superior to N.AST in basically every regard.

The huge advantage of AST is that you can even choose depending on the encounter/fights so don't lock yourself into the mindset that Diurnal is always better because frankly, it's not.

Except there's no choice to be had because N.AST is always inferior to D.AST in every fight where you don't strictly need shields, and in fights where you do, you don't bring a N.AST. It's really that simple.

Look, as I said multiple times before, it's regrettable that N.AST is currently left behind, and many of the people who correctly point out that it's inferior and that there's no reason to use it don't do this because they hate N.AST for some irrational reason, but because they would like to see it reworked (i.e., redesigned, not just buffed) in the future. It's a broken design that will never properly work as it currently stands and desperately defending it doesn't help.

[Mimilu]

Things SCH has over Noct!AST
-Fairies Fairies FAIRIES. A 300 potency heal every 3 seconds that is separate and almost autonomous from the caster is very nice
-Six DoTs (Bio, Miasma, Bio II, Miasma II, Shadow Flare, and Aero), compared to AST's 3 (Combust, Combust II, Aero)
-A way to spread their 3-native single-target DoTs (Bane)
-While not as strong as an AoE Arrow, Fey Wind isn't RNG based, making it more dependable.
-Deployment Tactics allow SCHs to spread their stronger, single-target shield
-Sacred Soil is place-and-forget, making it easier to use and allowing you to actually do other things while it's up, versus Collective Unconscious where you have to stand at least two seconds in the bubble to get the effect and can't move while the bubble is up.
-Ruin II and Energy Drain allows for mobile DPS
-Broil + Ruin II (170 + 80) is stronger then Malefic II (200)
-An AoE oGCD heal (Indomitability)

Things Noct!AST has over SCH:
-Cards allow for a variety of buffs
-1.3x Shield all the time versus x2 when the SCH crits
-Aspected Helios does x1.3 shields, Succor doesn't do x2 when crit
-Instant cast Shield (Aspected Benefic)
-5% increase on the potency of all our heals spells
-Collective Unconscious can technically last longer IF the caster doesn't cancel the bubble (15 secs for Bubble, 15 secs for HoT and 18 secs for Damage Reduction, which reset ever few seconds you stand in the bubble, plus Time Dilation's +15 and Celestial Opposition's +5)
-Synastry can be a very powerful single target healing boost and can be lengthened with Celestial Opposition
-A vanilla AoE heal (Helios)