I guess it's time

[RobbieH]

You're an idiot if you think it's appropriate to treat WoW as anything but an exception to the norm. No other MMO is even remotely close to its playerbase, and I even somewhat pointed that out to you in the post you quoted. And 10% of accounts as a sub base is low? Your beloved Blizzard has over 100m registered accounts. So if they hit 2m like you said, and 10% retention for subs is bad, then that must say really bad things about WoW's status, right? Or you could accept that none of us here know enough on the subject to make these claims and stop acting like any of your arguments on this front actually hold up.

I don't know who's the idiot, me for pointing out facts that are all over the Internet or you for assuming too much just because i've posted it and never played WoW.

No point talking to you.

[Velhart]

I don't know who's the idiot, me for pointing out facts that are all over the Internet or you for assuming too much just because i've posted it and never played WoW.

No point talking to you.

No numbers anyone gives here are a fact. It is all speculation and the only people that can give accurate data is SE themselves. You can make good estimates based on certain aspects, but nothing here is considered fact unless you work at SE and have direct access to their data.

Not only that, MMO's always decrease in numbers when far into an expansion/patch, even WoW. Was the same thing in WoW that people complain the game is dying and doomed because we are on the 5th month out of 6th on patch. Then a patch happens and everyone forgets about the doom and gloom till near time for the new patch and numbers rise. Ohh crap why did I bring this up? Horizontal enthusiasts are going to have a field day with this statement. x_x

[RobbieH]

MMO's always decrease in numbers when far into an expansion/patch

The problem is that this game population has been declining since 2.0, 3.3 released a month ago, and yet it's doing very little to keep people interested in the game, and the population is still declining.

[HeavenlyArmed]

The problem is that this game population has been declining since 2.0, 3.3 released a month ago, and yet it's doing very little to keep people interested in the game, and the population is still declining.

You're saying that the game's population has not grown at any point since 2.0? Because that's what "declining since 2.0" means, and pretty much anyone who's been playing since then can tell you how extremely incorrect that statement is.

[RobbieH]

You're saying that the game's population has not grown at any point since 2.0? Because that's what "declining since 2.0" means

No it's not.

Let's say there was a peak of 1m players in 2.0, then in 2.1 it declined to 750K and increased to 850k with 2.4, and declined again with 2.5 to 740k.

There's gains and losses but the total average amount of players is lower than in 2.0, so that's a decline.

pretty much anyone who's been playing since then can tell you how extremely incorrect that statement is.

I must be seeing ghosts then, because all the raiders i knew since 2.0 left and friends list keeps getting smaller online numbers, i wonder what that means.

[HeavenlyArmed]

No it's not.

Let's say there was a peak of 1m players in 2.0, then in 2.1 it declined to 750K and increased to 850k with 2.4, and declined again with 2.5 to 740k.

There's gains and losses but the total average amount of players is lower than in 2.0, so that's a decline.


I must be seeing ghosts then, because all the raiders i knew since 2.0 left and friends list keeps getting smaller online numbers, i wonder what that means.

That's not how the concept of time works. To say something has been happening since X point in time is to say that there has been no point in time since X that it was not happening. In your example, the best you could say is that it has been declining since 2.4. And the second part of what you said technically doesn't prove anything. People leaving the game does not mean the game is declining, for that to happen you need to have more people leaving than coming in, which we frankly have no reliable information on to judge with. I don't deny that the game is currently doing a poor job of retaining its core playerbase, but if there has been no word from SE on the game being in a poor state then the actual numbers likely don't fall too far from the usual trends which would mean that the game is in fact not dying.

[Velhart]

The problem is that this game population has been declining since 2.0, 3.3 released a month ago, and yet it's doing very little to keep people interested in the game, and the population is still declining.

If we want to compare. FFXI's increased and dropped as much as any other MMO, but always got numbers back for a while after new content/expansions came. No MMO is truly immune to this. People get bored and not play till the next patch/expansion. Can make content as fun or long lasting as you want. This is something that always happens.

Even hypothetically if FFXIV is at 500k subs, that is still really healthy for a game like this. Who honestly expects WoW numbers today? It was a right place at the right time scenario. Where is this "Has to be over a million to be considered not doomed." mentality?

[RobbieH]

Even hypothetically if FFXIV is at 500k subs, that is still really healthy for a game like this. Who honestly expects WoW numbers today? It was a right place at the right time scenario. Where is this "Has to be over a million to be considered not doomed." mentality?

500k is an ok number, nothing special about it.

But if you compare to 2.0, let's say 2.0 had 900k

It's an huge loss, and that's why i keep saying FFXIV has low numbers, it used to have a lot more

I don't know, maybe it's time the devs see what they're doing wrong?

We should look to improve, not remain the same "because of profitable numbers" and the actual numbers keep dropping.

I'm afraid they'll only look into changes when the player base dropped considerably, and the game doesn't have anything worth going back to if you quit, becuse the reasons that made you quit are still there, same formula, same everything.

[HeavenlyArmed]

500k is an ok number, nothing special about it.

But if you compare to 2.0, let's say 2.0 had 900k

It's an huge loss, and that's why i keep saying FFXIV has low numbers, it used to have a lot more

"But if you compare to 2.0, let's say it had this number. No one has ever sourced this number, and there's no way the number is actually correct, but let's say it had this number. This number is way bigger than the number that's sort of sourced, so the game is objectively losing a lot of players."

[Caitlyn]

The question is: Do you really want to play the same (old) game over and over again for the next 10 years? Answer: No one will.

If you want to keep FFXIV successfull, you have to change it. Some things could be radical, but the game must go forward. Keep it fresh, exciting and fun.

Here's a question: if you were given the choice to change only ONE thing about FFXIV, no matter how radical the change would be, what would you decide to alter?

Hard decision. There are alot of things I would like to change, but those things arent radical enough (like deeper character costumization or no more normal mode raids). Maybe a rework of the current class/combat system:

No fixed classes or jobs.
More like having your weapon, your gear and a fixed amount of skills. You can obtain your skills by learning/buying them. You can also upgrade them by spending points (like PvP). You have the freedom to choose your own personal Limit Break. And you can also choose between traditional tab targeting and a new aim targeting system. You can keep your old job or start creating a new one...

Example: Guardian
- Lance, Shield, Plate-Armour
- Tank- and Heal-Skills
- DPS-LB1 and -LB2, Healer-LB3
- Tab-Targeting System