Do healer need to help doing dps? Especially cleric stance?

[AristocraticCorgi]

I see both extremes, some healers just sit there doing absolutely nothing, not even DPSing out of CS. I've also had healers that get caught up dpsing and forget to heal me as tank. Nothing worse than watching a couple of holy go off as I slowly die. I'm not the best stance dancer out there, but as SCH I try to keep my dots up at a minimum. I also suggest playing other roles to get an idea of what it is they deal with. It's easy to call someone lazy or bad if you don't fully understand their job.

This advice is particularly useful. Do try and learn how other classes/jobs function within the grand scheme of things to see how you can improve your game in the long run.

[Lilyth]

Just wanna drop by and say that healing and DPSing is FUN! :P

Try it some day who still hasn't. You'll feel like you really reached the next level in your gameplay when you master it.

[FunkyBunch]

Just wanna drop by and say that healing and DPSing is FUN! :P

Try it some day who still hasn't. You'll feel like you really reached the next level in your gameplay when you master it.

Exactly this! I'm still a healer novice (lvl 44 SCH), but I actually really like healing.
Doing it properly, in my opinion, makes it the most intense and interesting set of jobs in the game.
When I started healing, it never even occurred to me to not use Cleric Stance regularly.
Trying to max out DPS and still keep everyone alive makes it interesting.
Standing around not doing anything for 3/4s of the dungeon, I can't understand how that is in anyway enjoyable.
I play this game, to PLAY, not stand around and watch other people play.

Maybe that's because I started as a BLM and if I'm not casting at any given second I know I'm doing bad at my job and that carries over to healing.

[randysquirrel]

Also remember... keeping the tank alive is not just the healer's job. It is a dual responsibility of the healer AND the tank, to heal and use appropriate CDs when needed.

Unfortunately, a lot of newer tanks don't use nearly enough CDs, even short ones that will come back up quickly, and so you'll need to heal more, whereas if they were to use them, it would allow you a little more time to chuck out a few dots or whatever.

When a tank dies, the healer will usually be blamed though

[Saseal]

Experienced healers *should* dps if there's little going on in the way of heals needed. Topping a tank at all times, every second, isn't very necessary if they're just being chipped away at, slowly. If anything, it just generates aggro while not contributing to getting rid of the mob.

I say 'experienced', because that's usually when people are comfortable and know when and what. When to change out of cleric and heal, when they can identify if it's safe to turn it on, what to do in an emergency, etc. They know their limits. You learn this through experience.
I don't expect inexperienced healers to do it, but to maybe experiment and feel it out as they go.
The healers that can do both, without any crazy events happening, are experienced. Those that can't handle the stance dancing really need to feel it out more (and by this, I mean the ones that switch to Cleric and completely forget to heal the tank on a constant basis >.>).

But while this is a mark of an active healer, I don't *expect* all healers to - just because I don't know how they are feeling, how experienced that are, or what their situation is.
If you don't feel safe DPSing on healer and really afraid someone will die in a situation, don't - but it's not horrible to push yourself to learn new things and push passed a 'full HP 100% of the time' boundary. Unless a tank buster is coming, 75% +/- isn't going to kill the tank, assuming the HP isn't going down crazy fast. It's just about reading the situation and feeling out the tank's ability to defend.

I DPS good amount, but only when I feel safe to. If I don't feel safe to - I will just not. It also comes down to knowing fights, if you're going into bosses/trials/raids. If I have nothing to heal but I know it's a short intermission and the Cleric CD may catch me with my pants down, I will throw a DoT or two..... uncleric'ed. *Shields face* Because it's just that - I feel it unsafe to do so - and if this means the cohealer - if there is one - is free to completely nonstop DPS the shiz out of the monster and lean on the fact that I've got the tank/party's back, then I'm all for my not dropping into temporary clerics.
If I know that no damage is going out any time soon or regens can cover it, then I will DPS (such as beginning of Thordan, after Seph EX's ultimate, etc)

In the case of dungeons, plodding on a regen (or two in the case of aspected benefic + aspected helios or regen + medica II if you really feel it may be needed to buy yourself time) will give you enough time for a few gravitys/Holys/single target attacks. Just keep in mind the time between when they wear off and how fast people kill. (Ideally you don't want to plod a fresh HoT on the tank right before everything dies.... but it happens, sometimes). Again, it's about feeling out your tank and how fast their HP goes down. I normally run with FC tanks so I know exactly what I can do with them, but I tend to be a little reserved at start with a DFed tank.

Feel it out and give it a try in lower dungeons - then work your way up. It's not unhealerly to help DPS, but I don't feel it a requirement either. Just a matter of throwing your all vs your comfort level.

[Saseal]

Just wanna drop by and say that healing and DPSing is FUN! :P

Try it some day who still hasn't. You'll feel like you really reached the next level in your gameplay when you master it.

^^^^^^^ all of this! \o/

[FunkyBunch]

*experienced* healers should dps if there's little going on in the way of heals needed. Topping a tank at all times, every second, isn't very necessary if they're just being chipped away at, slowly. If anything, it just generates aggro while not contributing to getting rid of the mob.

I think it's the opposite. (Experienced healers should ALSO DPS, but learning is even more important for inexperienced healers)
If you are inexperienced you don't have bad habits and should stance dance as much as possible.
It's WAY easier to learn when you haven't healed before than after you've got 60 levels in and then start trying to DPS.
Your way of thinking might be why some healers never feel comfortable in Cleric Stance.

Did a few tanks die as I learned to DPS in my first few dungeons? You betcha they did.
But I'm a much better healer now and can stance dance at the drop of a hat in a new dungeon.

Now, in the Hall of the Novice it tells you to DPS when not healing, so you really should try the instant you get Cleric Stance.

Not using Cleric Stance "until you feel comfortable" would be like a BLM using only UI because he or she is not "comfortable" running out of mana.

[Saseal]

I think it's the opposite. (Experienced healers should ALSO DPS, but learning is even more important for inexperienced healers)
If you are inexperienced you don't have bad habits and should stance dance as much as possible.

To each their own, though I understand what you're saying - I'm just using the term in a future tense. They're 'experienced' because they've tried it and have continued to do it and fine tune it. They've already made the mistakes and they know what their limitations are.

I've seen new healers in low level dungeons test waters - I can read their 'body language' sort to speak. Those are the ones that I like to commend for going out there and getting the experience and trying/pushing themselves to domore.
The ones I see heals 100% of the time for the smidgeon of missing HP, I'm not going to go after, but would wish they would expand their experience.
The guys I see in post level 50 dungeons that are all DPS and barely heal the tank - as I experienced recently - need to go back a little and get that experience in balancing the stance between healing and dpsing - possibly they just don't care, are drunk, or feel that they're told the ONLY good healer is a DPSing healer, and therefore try TOO hard to look good. This tells me they don't have a lot of experience, yet, and need to realize priorities. I'm not an advocate of that kind of pressure - only advocating of a person to actively pursue the next step in healerdom when they're ready. Not when a forum tells they have to, or otherwise they're crap. :/

But really, we're saying/believe the same thing - 'Go out there and do the most that you can and don't settle for the easiest path'; just with a variance in words/method ^^;

Edit: I realize now that my first line in my first post might have been taken different than intended - I meant that if you're experienced in healing, then you should already be DPSing o_o Not that "only once you're experienced" then you DPS.
Sorry for the poor wording

[FunkyBunch]

SNIP

I think we're close
I have just seen more healers do nothing but heal lately and it's slightly frustrating.
Even in older 8 mans where no one is taking any damage =/

I routinely try to help people out, but healers seem to be particularly sensitive. I said "I think we're all geared and skilled enough for you to pop a cleric stance once in a while". (Literally first thing I said in the dungeon run after two mobs pulls where the Tank took hardly no damage)
Response: "DUDE, WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?" (in all caps)

[DoUrden]

I think we're close
I have just seen more healers do nothing but heal lately and it's slightly frustrating.
Even in older 8 mans where no one is taking any damage =/

I routinely try to help people out, but healers seem to be particularly sensitive. I said "I think we're all geared and skilled enough for you to pop a cleric stance once in a while". (Literally first thing I said in the dungeon run after two mobs pulls where the Tank took hardly no damage)
Response: "DUDE, WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?" (in all caps)

Keep in mind that we will always encounter people in the game, or most any game, with some attitudes. But caution that we should view those people as representative of the larger group(s).