I guess it's time

[Thayos]

It doesn't matter what you or I think about whether the game is "interesting and a lot of fun" (which is a completely subjective measure and holds little relevance to SE's decisions), it matters what the majority of the player-base wants. The only good measure of this for a game with a half million subs globally is the subscriber numbers. If the sub numbers are staying in their acceptable margins SE's going to stick with the formula that works.

I'd argue that Yoshi-P is already showing he's not content with just sticking with what works. However, he's also using caution in finding ways to improve the game that are true to what made the game successful to begin with.

That's why I'm not expecting any kind of overhaul that makes the game horizontal. That would make no sense. People play this game for what it is, not for what it isn't.

So far, though, the dev team is 1-1 on new types of battle content. Diadem was a colossal failure, but Aquapolis is pretty cool. Deep Dungeons is a big deal in the conversation of Yoshi-P's impact. I'm glad we don't need to wait much longer to see how it turns out.

I could say the team is 1-2 if you include LoV, but that's like including Rocky V as an actual Rocky movie.

[Deathgiver]

I'd argue that Yoshi-P is already showing he's not content with just sticking with what works. However, he's also using caution in finding ways to improve the game that are true to what made the game successful to begin with.

That's why I'm not expecting any kind of overhaul that makes the game horizontal. That would make no sense. People play this game for what it is, not for what it isn't.

So far, though, the dev team is 1-1 on new types of battle content. Diadem was a colossal failure, but Aquapolis is pretty cool. Deep Dungeons is a big deal in the conversation of Yoshi-P's impact. I'm glad we don't need to wait much longer to see how it turns out.

I could say the team is 1-2 if you include LoV, but that's like including Rocky V as an actual Rocky movie.

I completely agree, I don't think Yoshi is content, and wants to try new things. The problem is that the player base as a general populace has continuously, since 2.0 complained about systems that were too horizontal. There were complaints about "why should I bother doing coil/alex if the rewards are the same ilvl as tome gear", diadem as a whole was panned for being horizontal to both the tome gear and alex (not going into the actual fun factor), and the relic quest is a pretty binary topic amongst the player base.

[Vantol]

I'd argue that Yoshi-P is already showing he's not content with just sticking with what works. However, he's also using caution in finding ways to improve the game that are true to what made the game successful to begin with.

In one of last interviews Yoshida actually said, that he likes this game formula and it isn't going to change anytime soon. So it's safe bet that we will get 24-man tower + 2 dungeons / 8-man raid + 2 dungeons in coming years. Maybe some new PvP zones at best and new Palace floors. Till 5.0 at least. That's why everyone is so nervous.

People play this game for what it is, not for what it isn't.

There are many people who play this game still waiting for promised changes.

[Istaru]

I'd argue that Yoshi-P is already showing he's not content with just sticking with what works. However, he's also using caution in finding ways to improve the game that are true to what made the game successful to begin with.

That's why I'm not expecting any kind of overhaul that makes the game horizontal. That would make no sense. People play this game for what it is, not for what it isn't.

So far, though, the dev team is 1-1 on new types of content. Diadem was a colossal failure, but Aquapolis is pretty cool. Deep Dungeons is a big deal in the conversation of Yoshi-P's impact. I'm glad we don't need to wait much longer to see how it turns out.

I don't expect to go from like 90 degrees of Yoshida vertical to 10 degrees tanaka horizontal. That is simply not going to happen. My question really is, why can't we have a bit of both, even if that is like 60 degrees vertical. Oh, and without all the glass ceilings that are the lockouts?

I totally get and understand that there is a concern that newer and current people could get overwhelmed by too much to do and walk away since I they can't keep up. To be honest, I'm not sure how to overcome that beyond things like the lockouts that some of us despise. On the other hand, how manage to have enough progression type things for the group that will go ham all over new content without choking them to death.

Keeping an eye on new player experience is a god thing and is something that did cause some people to play XI for a very short time and leave forever. I suspect that this game has the opposite problem, how to get people to stay long term.

I wish I had answers, but I really don't. I don't even have answers for myself on some of the things that bug me much less anyone else.

[Thayos]

So it's safe bet that we will get 24-man tower + 2 dungeons / 8-man raid + 2 dungeons in coming years.

Oh, I have no doubt about this.

But in this expansion cycle we've already seen the implementation of the Diadem, Aquapolis and, soon, Palace of the Dead. We know the latter two will also get updates from here on out. And once Diadem is successfully tuned, I'm sure we'll see ongoing expansions to that as well.

So the future is just more than the aforementioned raids/dungeons/raids/dungeons. Mixed in will be all kinds of new types of content like what we've seen over the past year.

[Zojha]

Would you prefer a game, that brings a lot of money to company, but is depressing and makes you bored/angry every time you play it or game that "hardly makes it", but is interesting and a lot of fun?

Honestly, I don't get how these even go together.

If a certain entertainment is interesting and a lot of fun, it'll get popular, unless the competition has means to suffocate it. Word of mouth, reviews etc. League of Legends started out as a rather obscure "Easier DotA for noobs" and rose to popularity rather dramaticaly. And this popularity allows you to leverage profits.
If a certain entertainment is depressing and makes people bored/angry, chances are they'll look for alternatives - and for MMORPGs, there are alternatives aplenty. You need to have a monopoly on the market for this to work.

[KitingGenbu]

So far, though, the dev team is 1-1 on new types of battle content. Diadem was a colossal failure, but Aquapolis is pretty cool. Deep Dungeons is a big deal in the conversation of Yoshi-P's impact. I'm glad we don't need to wait much longer to see how it turns out.

I could say the team is 1-2 if you include LoV, but that's like including Rocky V as an actual Rocky movie.

Has Aquapolis really been out long enough to be deemed a success or failure? Maybe people forget how popular Diadem was when it first came out then tappered off after the adjustments.

On a more serious note, the answer to all rpg related questions lies in Diablo, I assure you.

[Thayos]

Has Aquapolis really been out long enough to be deemed a success or failure? Maybe people forget how popular Diadem was when it first came out then tappered off after the adjustments.

The amount of venom and contempt experienced in the early days of Diadem was pretty telling of its failure. It was too long, aimless and completely boring. It was a failure even while it was still populated. I can't remember a single time in there when the overwhelming feeling was, "wow, this is fun!" It was basically a massive instanced hunt zone with everyone zerging the same monsters... not fun by any measure. At least in normal hunts, you have to look for the marks.

Hardcore players were pissed over the amount of senseless grinding required for the best drops; more casual/midcore players like me were pissed that Diadem wasn't the new, accessible form of endgame we'd hoped for. Really, SE just completely missed the mark by designing content that pretty much nobody wanted.

Aquapolis already feels way more successful. It is bite-sized fun that anyone can jump into. It doesn't waste anyone's time, and lets friends in FCs group up for stress-free fun. Even better, it breathed life into one of the game's other content systems -- treasure map hunting -- which is also good for casual diversions and for the economy. The fact that Aquapolis isn't making people hate the game already puts it far ahead of Diadem, imo.

[RiceisNice]

Honestly, I don't get how these even go together.

Something like Mighty No.9's creation and reception would be an example of this. That being said though...

If a certain entertainment is interesting and a lot of fun, it'll get popular, unless the competition has means to suffocate it. Word of mouth, reviews etc. League of Legends started out as a rather obscure "Easier DotA for noobs" and rose to popularity rather dramaticaly. And this popularity allows you to leverage profits.
If a certain entertainment is depressing and makes people bored/angry, chances are they'll look for alternatives - and for MMORPGs, there are alternatives aplenty. You need to have a monopoly on the market for this to work.

To me, what determines a mmo's success is not only the financial aspect of it, but the retention of players (though the two are not mutually exclusive from each other). Naturally, if you're getting a huge sum of money from a game, you'd have more ways to broaden the horizon and expand.

Has Aquapolis really been out long enough to be deemed a success or failure? Maybe people forget how popular Diadem was when it first came out then tappered off after the adjustments.

On a more serious note, the answer to all rpg related questions lies in Diablo, I assure you.

To me, I don't feel that Aquapolis is meant to be a long term thing...just another throw away content that they'll forget about in future patch cycles (another thing I'd wish they would stop doing). All it's really done is made obtaining minions and glamour items much more accessible and available on the market. The gil reward is pretty insignificant, and the huge increase of items is going to drop the prices on the market. As someone that doesn't have much interest in collecting minions, aquapolis ultimately falls back onto the same combat mechanic we've seen since 2.0

And about Aquapolis - I did it 20 times on first day for achievement and never returned. I don't understand what is fun about it but considering that it took like 0.5 devs to develop whole thing not much resources were wasted, so whatever.

Source? I mean they've said on record that they're doing one less dungeon and less overall MSQ quests per patch cycle in order to fit more "new" content like this, LoV and Diadem.

[Vantol]

The amount of venom and contempt experienced in the early days of Diadem was pretty telling of its failure. It was too long, aimless and completely boring. It was a failure even while it was still populated. I can't remember a single time in there when the overwhelming feeling was, "wow, this is fun!"

Not to be salty, really. But that's the best and most precise description of the whole FFXIV.

And about Aquapolis - I did it 20 times on first day for achievement and never returned. I don't understand what is fun about it but considering that it took like 0.5 devs to develop whole thing not much resources were wasted, so whatever.

Source? I mean they've said on record that they're doing one less dungeon and less overall MSQ quests per patch cycle in order to fit more "new" content like this, LoV and Diadem.

Well ... that's a guess, but how much effort does it take to implement 1 small room, that is copy-pasted a few times, 2 random() functions and a few mobs. Not much.