Variance in player skill is hurting FFXIV's itemization design.

[loreleidiangelo]

I think giving casuals alternate methods of acquisition other than just "wait for the raid nerf" is what's more important, tbh. I don't raid not because I'm not "good enough", I don't raid cuz it's boring. Pre-scripted encounters with lockstep synchro swimming mechanics and a "someone died, time to wipe" fail ratio aren't interesting to me. I actually find myself as a healer most challenged in Mhach these days, where my ability to adapt and react to scenarios has salvaged many a run. So for me, the ideal ways to get gear would be from there, or from the Esos/Lore I get from running the place repeatedly.

Basically, I don't think locking anything that impacts battle gameplay behind raids only is ever a good thing. And if they make something like Nodachi +1 obtainable from raid OR tomes, then we'll have the same issue we have now about raiders not feeling "exclusive enough".

[Seraphix2407]

I think giving casuals alternate methods of acquisition other than just "wait for the raid nerf" is what's more important, tbh. I don't raid not because I'm not "good enough", I don't raid cuz it's boring..

Dw I got that vibe from you ages ago. I know for some people it's a bit boring when the same shit happens again and again. It is for me too once you done it many times. I still think some exlusivity should be locked behind raid. As I said many people doesn't really even play the game, the battle content atleast, not much of it. Why will it bother them if raiders get very good gear and they can't? You really don't need great gear to run dungeons and for most people rotation was never a thing, just spam the same button and hope they do well. So then again gear wouldn't help them speed run.

And then again raiders do raids for effort and rewards, if you or anyone else doesn't want it, thats fine. But making them have not having it because you or some other people dont want to raid is a bit silly. I do get your point, but to me it's not valid enough.

[loreleidiangelo]

Dw I got that vibe from you ages ago. I know for some people it's a bit boring when the same shit happens again and again. It is for me too once you done it many times. I still think some exlusivity should be locked behind raid. As I said many people doesn't really even play the game, the battle content atleast, not much of it. Why will it bother them if raiders get very good gear and they can't? You really don't need great gear to run dungeons and for most people rotation was never a thing, just spam the same button and hope they do well. So then again gear wouldn't help them speed run.

And then again raiders do raids for effort and rewards, if you or anyone else doesn't want it, thats fine. But making them have not having it because you or some other people dont want to raid is a bit silly. I do get your point, but to me it's not valid enough.

I like the system we have now, where raiders get better gear "for a while", then things are implemented to help casuals get it to...without setting foot into a raid (ie, no Echo as a justification that "anyone will be able to get it eventually").

If this system were still in place, but with gear that isn't rendered obsolete in two patches, I'd be perfectly okay with it (or add other less trying methods to get the gear like hunts or Diadem or whatever). I get that people don't find replacing the gear they worked so hard to get every 6 months fun, I just don't think the devs will ever risk making their casual playerbase feel "less than" just to appease a vocal minority.

[Granyala]

I think giving casuals alternate methods of acquisition other than just "wait for the raid nerf" is what's more important, tbh. I don't raid not because I'm not "good enough", I don't raid cuz it's boring. Pre-scripted encounters with lockstep synchro swimming mechanics and a "someone died, time to wipe" fail ratio aren't interesting to me. I actually find myself as a healer most challenged in Mhach these days, where my ability to adapt and react to scenarios has salvaged many a run. So for me, the ideal ways to get gear would be from there, or from the Esos/Lore I get from running the place repeatedly.

Same here. Why I do consider raids fun (I have the skill to raid Mythic in WoW) I got tired of the scheduled play and coordination dance with 1 or 2 guys screwing it up all the time.

These days I want to play when and for how long I feel like.
I don't want to contend with dumb loot RNG and I most certainly don't want to contend with underperforming raid members.
Been an officer, done that long enough.

This is why I happen to like the tome gear (guaranteed progress at my own pace) and Mhachs difficulty level is pretty much spot on for raids featuring random people.
Not as hilariously braindead as WoWs LFR. >.<

Diadem was fine, but the crybabies of casuals came to the internet complain about it because it would require effort to get decent gear

Diadem is NOT fine. It is a skull-imploding™ boring RNG grind clusterf***.
I don't pay a sub to mindlessly farm mobs and if that is what casual content is supposed to look like, I'm out.
WAAY more entertaining games out there.

[RobbieH]

Diadem is NOT fine. It is a skull-imploding™ boring RNG grind clusterf***.

Of course Diadem is boring, it's a grind, every grind tends to be boring, grind for better rewards, that was diadem, don't come with the excuses of farming brain dead mobs when every dungeon in this game can be beaten with a blindfold, are you saying expert roulette isn't brain dead content and boring? I gave up on expert roulette and i get full lore cap in one day doing hunts, at lest it's a bit dynamic, god help me if i ever go into Hullbreaker HM again, if diadem was boring i don't know how to classify that dungeon.

Anyway i guess people don't understand what investment means, because that's the purpose of grinding.

I don't pay a sub to mindlessly farm mobs and if that is what casual content is supposed to look like, I'm out.

You don't? From my point of view everything besides end-game raiding (and props to SE for Weeping City) is exactly that, but to each their own.

[Granyala]

Give me 3 good reasons why people who don't raid should have raid stat bonus gear? If you raid you have earned it. I could go on all night about why they shouldn't have it without giving effort, but before anyone ask me or want them to give them reasons, I'd like to have you give me 3 reasons.

I don't have to.

Raiders already get a higher item level to boot, so they are more powerful.
I simply see no reason at all to further INCREASE the already existing gap.

You don't? From my point of view everything besides end-game raiding (and props to SE for Weeping City) is exactly that, but to each their own.

*chuckles* It's kinda awkward, but reading your posts reminds me of myself when I was a mythic raider.
Ofc everything else seems mindless from our raiding Ivory towers. (excluding high end PvP, which is actually A LOT harder than raiding)

I also do agree with you that the difficulty of the current 4mans is rather underwhelming. It's barely possible to wipe in there anymore. :/

Still, once you leave the raiding scene, yet still like the game as such, you will begin to understand where we "dirty casuals" are coming from.

[RobbieH]

Ofc everything else seems mindless from our raiding Ivory towers. (excluding high end PvP, which is actually A LOT harder than raiding)

I like the PvP in this game now that you bring it up, however everytime they release a new mode it kills the previous ones, this has been happening since the very first content patch, and that's something they still they didn't realize, which is: everytime they release something they kill pretty much everything that exists.

This is a big flaw in design in my opinion, and to make things worse they removed the ilvl restriction that PvP gear had, they killed rank grinding, once again casuals are at it.

I just wish they would stop "casualising" everything because that's what's been happening, i'm seriously suffering from an huge burnout, sadly i can't take GW2 anymore either, same for Black Desert, Blade & Soul and others, this is the game i love and want to keep playing, but it's been very disappointing what they have been doing, i could write more flaws than the ones i wrote here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3749119

There's been very few design changes that were good since 2.0, i'm glad they introduced tokens to Savage, the first SIX weeks i didn't get anything out of A5S thank god i got the tokens for the damn belt, on top of that to get i230 Lore it would require 7 weeks, SEVEN, unless i got the item from Savage.

Two things i'll never understand about raids in this game and it's drops:

- Savage still locked on content, why only lift the restriction when new Savage tier comes? Pretty much nobody is going to bother with it because they will be busy with the new ilvl.
- 24 Man Raid gear is 10 ilvls bellow the cap, and has a weekly limit, can't be upgraded or dyed. What.

^For the 24 man raid they should just add the stats that are not a combination of what already exists in Lore and Savage, for example, let's say Savage chest is Crit+SS, and Lore is Acc+DET, there's still more possible combination of stats, why not make the 24 Man raid item i240 and the stats CRIT+DET for example?

Yes it would probably be bis, so what? It's still one per week. The next content update will make it obsolete, why make it i230, not dyable and not upgradeable? I don't get it.

._.

[Granyala]

The next content update will make it obsolete, why make it i230, not dyable and not upgradeable? I don't get it.
._.

I think they view Mhach gear as a catch-up measure to speed people along until they get either lore 230s which they can upgrade or until they get savage raid loot.
Same is probably true with the Nidhogg weapons, though these are in a bit of an awkward position, considering you have to clear extreme mode to get them.

There is no gap, By the time most raiders are close to being 240, welfare city comes out and everyone can be 240 in a matter of weeks. There is only an illusion of any gap and it's at the raider's expense.

But that is not a problem with the rewards themselves.
It's a problem with horrible raid loot RNG and lockouts.

This can easily be fixed by increasing the speed at which raiders gain loot, so they they are 240 by the time "welfare city" hits the streets.
BTW, at one piece of gear a week it takes 3 months to upgrade to 240.

[zosia]

I think they view Mhach gear as a catch-up measure to speed people along until they get either lore 230s which they can upgrade or until they get savage raid loot.
Same is probably true with the Nidhogg weapons, though these are in a bit of an awkward position, considering you have to clear extreme mode to get them.

But that is not a problem with the rewards themselves.
It's a problem with horrible raid loot RNG and lockouts.

This can easily be fixed by increasing the speed at which raiders gain loot, so they they are 240 by the time "welfare city" hits the streets.
BTW, at one piece of gear a week it takes 3 months to upgrade to 240.

You do know hunts are still a thing right? It does not take long to accumulate a bunch of seals, esp if hunts are unpopular on your server. It's quite common for A's just to be roaming around on my sever.

[zosia]

I don't have to.

Raiders already get a higher item level to boot, so they are more powerful.
I simply see no reason at all to further INCREASE the already existing gap.
*chuckles* It's kinda awkward, but reading your posts reminds me of myself when I was a mythic raider.Ofc everything else seems mindless from our raiding Ivory towers. (excluding high end PvP, which is actually A LOT harder than raiding)

I also do agree with you that the difficulty of the current 4mans is rather underwhelming. It's barely possible to wipe in there anymore. :/

Still, once you leave the raiding scene, yet still like the game as such, you will begin to understand where we "dirty casuals" are coming from.

There is no gap, By the time most raiders are close to being 240, welfare city comes out and everyone can be 240 in a matter of weeks. There is only an illusion of any gap and it's at the raider's expense.

You know this game has a problem with raid rewards when other game developers call Yoshida out mid interview (looking at you Level-5 interview) on how bad the rewards are for savage difficulty. Keep sticking your head in the sand though, this game is so close to LoTRO status that it will go over the edge any patch now.

I don't even need to make an argument anymore, other game companies will do it for me every time the trash reward system for savage comes up in an interview.