Variance in player skill is hurting FFXIV's itemization design.

[AutoWhit]

I think you are missing the point of his statement. It's not about separating one group from another because of skill. He says the game is about choosing the content you want to play. If they were to add a piece of gear with special stats somewhere in the game that would tweak or improve a player's stats then people will start to feel like they have to do that content to acquire that piece of gear. What this does is separate the people that actually do that particular content from the people that don't normally do it. This creates animosity towards the game and it's developers, because now you have the group that doesn't normally do that content feeling like they are being forced to do something they don't want to do to improve their character.

It has nothing to do with the personal skill levels of individual players.

[loreleidiangelo]

Look at relic, it's grindy and is nothing special. FFXI relic was grindy too but had some special effect to it. At least make relic unqiue and not some grind that barely gives any purpose.

And that's fine, because in XIV, EVERYONE can obtain a relic. There is literally no time or skill constraint that bars you from obtaining one, just a lack of desire, which is someone's own problem. What I don't think this game needs are unique gears only obtainable from NM-type rare spawns that require hours of camping + added RNG on the drop itself, or gear only obtainable from Savage-level raiding that is vastly superior to anything else. This is what many people in this thread seem to want, though - something that allows them to lord their "time investment" and "skill at the game" over the masses.

This is why I made my initial post, to be honest. I'm just trying to puzzle out what people want - cooler gear with a variety of situational use, or a way for raiders to set themselves apart from everyone else in a manner that casuals cannot touch? To me, this game's selling point is that I don't have to spend boatloads of time grinding to stay relevant. If they suddenly changed that, I'd just go back to playing Blade and Soul, which operates under a similar philosophy but at least has characters with actual butts in it.

[loreleidiangelo]

And this is what's wrong with this game and we have what we have.

Care to elaborate on how my playstyle of this game is "wrong"? It'd feel pretty bait-and-switch honestly if Yoshi and Co turned this game from a casual game without huge amounts of time commitment required to stay relevant to "Only Hardcores Need Apply Fantasy XIV", y'know?

[Seraphix2407]

Now, if you want to argue that "equip higher item level and be done with gearing" is boring, we could have a discussion, because I would agree on that premise. Stat wise, the gear in this game is extremely boring. Stats beyond item level might as well not exist, because secondaries are too weak to have an impact (even if I meld only SS I don't feel any difference in casting speed) and with only 2 sets we don't have much choice in terms of "stacking fav stat" anyway..

You pretty much summed up how I feel, so no worries! The gap doesn't really need to be much higher than tomestone gear, what I mean is add something cool to the raid gear atleast.
Oh yeah tomestone capping do suck as well. If they gonna do that for the next expension, you and I know very well people gonna be tired of the same shit. Same thing different wrapping yeah?

This is why I made my initial post, to be honest. I'm just trying to puzzle out what people want - cooler gear with a variety of situational use, or a way for raiders to set themselves apart from everyone else in a manner that casuals cannot touch? To me, this game's selling point is that I don't have to spend boatloads of time grinding to stay relevant. If they suddenly changed that, I'd just go back to playing Blade and Soul, which operates under a similar philosophy but at least has characters with actual butts in it.

I get your point, raid alone is fun but the reward is not that great. It really isn't. So if raid gear does get better (not only ilvl up) but also form for bonus stats would be cool to have. So if you don't raid or can't raid you will get that gear eventually (if it appeals to you as glamour for alts), they always have nerf patches of that content. However by then the gear is kinda shit because of new ilvl again. Give raiders some cool stuff, because last time I checked, the forum was hoarding and going crazy about how chinese/japanese/korean people have exlusive items. It's not like it's a game breaker for casuals either no? Why would you need great gear for only doing dungeons?

[loreleidiangelo]

I think giving casuals alternate methods of acquisition other than just "wait for the raid nerf" is what's more important, tbh. I don't raid not because I'm not "good enough", I don't raid cuz it's boring. Pre-scripted encounters with lockstep synchro swimming mechanics and a "someone died, time to wipe" fail ratio aren't interesting to me. I actually find myself as a healer most challenged in Mhach these days, where my ability to adapt and react to scenarios has salvaged many a run. So for me, the ideal ways to get gear would be from there, or from the Esos/Lore I get from running the place repeatedly.

Basically, I don't think locking anything that impacts battle gameplay behind raids only is ever a good thing. And if they make something like Nodachi +1 obtainable from raid OR tomes, then we'll have the same issue we have now about raiders not feeling "exclusive enough".

[RobbieH]

Care to elaborate on how my playstyle of this game is "wrong"? It'd feel pretty bait-and-switch honestly if Yoshi and Co turned this game from a casual game without huge amounts of time commitment required to stay relevant to "Only Hardcores Need Apply Fantasy XIV", y'know?

It's not about your play style, it's that people (including you based on what you said) want the best stuff without any effort.

Why would you be entitled to the best gear if you put no effort into it? I don't get it.

[Seraphix2407]

I think giving casuals alternate methods of acquisition other than just "wait for the raid nerf" is what's more important, tbh. I don't raid not because I'm not "good enough", I don't raid cuz it's boring..

Dw I got that vibe from you ages ago. I know for some people it's a bit boring when the same shit happens again and again. It is for me too once you done it many times. I still think some exlusivity should be locked behind raid. As I said many people doesn't really even play the game, the battle content atleast, not much of it. Why will it bother them if raiders get very good gear and they can't? You really don't need great gear to run dungeons and for most people rotation was never a thing, just spam the same button and hope they do well. So then again gear wouldn't help them speed run.

And then again raiders do raids for effort and rewards, if you or anyone else doesn't want it, thats fine. But making them have not having it because you or some other people dont want to raid is a bit silly. I do get your point, but to me it's not valid enough.

[loreleidiangelo]

It's not about your play style, it's that people (including you based on what you said) want the best stuff without any effort.

Why would you be entitled to the best gear if you put no effort into it? I don't get it.

I didn't say "no effort", that was your assumption. In my reply to Seraphix a few comments up I remarked that the relic grind to me is a suitable amount of effort for things (albeit boring as hell).

That aside, this thread is supposed to be more about how we can brainstorm ways to make gear more rewarding without playing into the devs' fears that it would alienate portions of the playerbase, no? Or am I misunderstanding something here?

[loreleidiangelo]

Dw I got that vibe from you ages ago. I know for some people it's a bit boring when the same shit happens again and again. It is for me too once you done it many times. I still think some exlusivity should be locked behind raid. As I said many people doesn't really even play the game, the battle content atleast, not much of it. Why will it bother them if raiders get very good gear and they can't? You really don't need great gear to run dungeons and for most people rotation was never a thing, just spam the same button and hope they do well. So then again gear wouldn't help them speed run.

And then again raiders do raids for effort and rewards, if you or anyone else doesn't want it, thats fine. But making them have not having it because you or some other people dont want to raid is a bit silly. I do get your point, but to me it's not valid enough.

I like the system we have now, where raiders get better gear "for a while", then things are implemented to help casuals get it to...without setting foot into a raid (ie, no Echo as a justification that "anyone will be able to get it eventually").

If this system were still in place, but with gear that isn't rendered obsolete in two patches, I'd be perfectly okay with it (or add other less trying methods to get the gear like hunts or Diadem or whatever). I get that people don't find replacing the gear they worked so hard to get every 6 months fun, I just don't think the devs will ever risk making their casual playerbase feel "less than" just to appease a vocal minority.

[RobbieH]

I didn't say "no effort", that was your assumption. In my reply to Seraphix a few comments up I remarked that the relic grind to me is a suitable amount of effort for things (albeit boring as hell).

That aside, this thread is supposed to be more about how we can brainstorm ways to make gear more rewarding without playing into the devs' fears that it would alienate portions of the playerbase, no? Or am I misunderstanding something here?

You said without grind, grind requires effort, of course that was my assumption.

About the ways to make gear more rewarding i already talked about it here, not gonna write the same again sorry.

Diadem was fine, but the crybabies of casuals came to the internet complain about it because it would require effort to get decent gear, it was a grind fest, yes, but the only real grind there was, good job casuals, keep killing content, at this rate in one year there will be 10% of hardcores and raiders than there is now.