Variance in player skill is hurting FFXIV's itemization design.

[zar]

The gearing system is awful and just hurts the game more than helps it.

Take a look at Nidhogg for example. il235 weapons. When you release the relic step in the same patch with it being il240 who cares about il235 weapons? Returning players and alts?
il240 weapons are nothing new either. They've been in the game for almost 4 months now via gobdip (which is earlier in the raiding tier nowadays). So Nidhogg was also dead upon arrival for raiders who have a cleared A7S.

So how do you actually make Nidhogg relevant?
You add more interesting stats to the game, so multiple il240 weapons can coexist with each other.
* Augmented Lore weapons can have a set bonus for wearing other Lore pieces.
* Nidhogg weapons can be il240.
* Relic can remain the casual option that takes several weeks to get. No longer feels like a necessity.

This doesn't even change itemization that drastically, I just added set bonus to the lore set (Which set bonuses have already been suggested before), and it made Nidhogg worth doing.
It makes the raiding option still ultimately superior but not enough to completely outshine the other 2 options. Without the lore set bonus, the relic and nidhogg weapons are alternatives to the augmented.
It would get more players interested in doing the ex fights, while those who CBF still have their weapon option via the relic. Everyone wins.

It just baffles me that they add in NEW content and the gear is not even good. I cleared Nidhogg once just to see it and have no intention on farming it.

[MiniPrinny]

-snip-

I got the bird (sheer luck) and the two books for SMN and SCH, my main off-Jobs when I'm not playing DRK. At this point, I could get the guillotine or some lesser weapons, but I'm in no rush now to even bother. So, while Nidhogg is rather pointless for raiders in terms of their mains, we can at least work with it as a means to quickly get weapons for off-Jobs.

[RobbieH]

I got the bird (sheer luck) and the two books for SMN and SCH, my main off-Jobs when I'm not playing DRK. At this point, I could get the guillotine or some lesser weapons, but I'm in no rush now to even bother. So, while Nidhogg is rather pointless for raiders in terms of their mains, we can at least work with it as a means to quickly get weapons for off-Jobs.

Most of the time i see people showing off their weapons while afk in Idylshire or Limsa instead of actually using it in dungeons (they have better they just equip the i235 to show off), let alone raids.

As someone who prefers raids and end-game and doesn't really care about trials (they're not even end-game) i find trials pointless for me, Nidhogg EX is one of those examples (Ravana was a must back then for obvious reasons, but no other primal did as much difference since then), the only reason i would do it would be for the bird, i care so much about it i didn't even bother doing it.

This game has an huge issue with rewards, they're not well distributed, never been and hopefully they will fix it, because if not more people will keep leaving.

Right now we have relic i240, i'm doing DRG one and my main is a NIN, i'm only at 90/240 and i'm not even rushing, people rush to show off then they go afk most of the day besides doing some roulettes due to that same reason, rush then have nothing else to do, i'll never understand.

Knowing there's the i240 relic why would i bother with i235 especially when i can pick the relic stats? The relic can even be better than the Midan weapon depending on stats, and it's something that will last at least until 3.5 as more relic quests get available.

From a raider perspective the Nidhogg weapon is pretty much useless, unless one is not to be bothered with Relic or can't beat A7S.

[Granyala]

I'm very much against having special items with unique skill modifications that all end up mathed out, FOTM'd and locked away behind savage raiding.

The base stats on the items and how they distribute player power in genera are fine.
Much better compared to WoW, where your character will always be trash if you do not raid at least heroic difficulty.

Now... Materia. Here they could theoretically bring in special materia, which they can make as easy or hard to obtain as they want.
Similar to AION stigma skill mods, every piece of gear that has materia slots would be compatible.

As they are now, materia for combat gear is borderline useless in terms of actual character power and exceedingly boring from a gameplay PoV.

[Kaurie]

The gearing system is awful and just hurts the game more than helps it.

Take a look at Nidhogg for example. il235 weapons. When you release the relic step in the same patch with it being il240 who cares about il235 weapons? Returning players and alts?
il240 weapons are nothing new either. They've been in the game for almost 4 months now via gobdip (which is earlier in the raiding tier nowadays). So Nidhogg was also dead upon arrival for raiders who have a cleared A7S.

Agreed, but for me it's even more like, I don't care about either Nidhogg, nor Relic weapon that much. Sorta working on both, not really caring if I get neither. Woopdy doo, I'll do 1850 instead of 1750 DPS. The time and effort to get those doesn't pay off in time saved in dungeons, and if I was good enough to be on A4S where that DPS may matter, I'd get the A4S weapon (or at least lore upgraded).

Add in some cool effect with each and they may be more desirable.

[Granyala]

The gearing system is awful and just hurts the game more than helps it.

Take a look at Nidhogg for example. il235 weapons. When you release the relic step in the same patch with it being il240 who cares about il235 weapons?

How about ... everyone that doesn't clear savage raiding and doesn't "ermagawd no-life" the 240 relic step?

How about players that are not interested in neither, raiding nor want to do the grind towards their relic.

Really, learn to take a peek over the borders of your dinner plate once in a while.

[RobbieH]

How about ... everyone that doesn't clear savage raiding and doesn't "ermagawd no-life" the 240 relic step?

How about players that are not interested in neither, raiding nor want to do the grind towards their relic.

Really, learn to take a peek over the borders of your dinner plate once in a while.

If you are not interested in neither what's the point of commenting? What did you bring to discuss?

Seriously.

Also people that don't raid don't need an i240 to begin with, it's not like their DPS will increase by 200 by having it, even if so for what, faster dungeons? Not much, you'd save a few seconds for what, faster afk in Cities? Typical casual life that i'll never understand.

[Granyala]

Typical casual life that i'll never understand.

RPG = Character progression. That is the point of the game. To progress your character in terms of power and story.
This is true for all sorts of gamers, diehard raiders, raiders even crafters.

Niddhogg offers the BiS weapons for everyone that doesn't raid savage and is not interested in the rather intense grind of the Relic.

Since you asked: I am doing my 240 relic right now. No I am not one of those lunatics that does it in 2 weeks. So theoretically Niddhoggs weapons would be useful to me.

I do agree that if Nidhoggs weapons were directed at casuals, it might have made more sense to plop them into the normal version. Not sure how difficult the extreme mode is compared to Alexander Savage.

[Dzian]

I've certainly completely lost interest in gearing up in this game, and that's the core of the games progression... There is enough content besides that to keep me interested, but I certainly give zero f*cks about gear these days...

This is something I definitely agree with and I think is a big part of the problem perhaps in many cases even bigger than player skill.

For me I don't care about gear because every piece of gear I get is ultimately going to end up traded in for seals as it'll be replace in a month or so with something better. this makes gear incredibly lack luster and thus not worth the effort to get... my paladin is 231 and there's no reason to take it higher. over time i'll probably upgrade the lore 230s into 240s or I know at somepoint there'll be 250 even 260 gear.

its also the reason I don't bother melding anything... whats the point when its going to be replaced in no time...

so then when you look at the "harder" content like savage and extreme primals the answer is simply why bother? next patch everything you have will be obsolete and easily replaced or an eaiser alternative will be added.

didn't do savage for the 240 gear didn't need 240 gear. and now 240 gear is easier to get from weeping city and upgrading lore.....

there's really no reason at all to make any "effort" to gear up your character because you'll gear it up no matter what you do.
and there's really no drive to go and do the "harder" content because everyone will be on the same level anyway....

for me it's not a lack of skill that stops me doing extremes / savage stuff it's just there is absolutely ZERO motivation to do so.
and I know a lot of players who feel the exact same way.

so I don't think skill gap between players is the big problem at all. there's just no motivation for players to rise up to the challenges because anything they get form doing them will ultimately be junk...

that and the challenges are made easier over time anyway so knowing that, where's the logic to do it now....

it's a contradiction by game design... Gear is the motivating factor to do content. but back in beta Yoshi said "gear wasn't valuable or something to get attached to" if it's not valuable there's no motivation to get it. which in turn means there's no motivation to do the harder content...

so in many cases the problem is not one of skill but one of proper incentives. if the rewards from savage / extremes were valuable pieces of gear. i'd makethe effort to get them. but when the rewards are "next months junk" there's no point.

[Granyala]

for me it's not a lack of skill that stops me doing extremes / savage stuff it's just there is absolutely ZERO motivation to do so.
and I know a lot of players who feel the exact same way.

GOOD.

Because stuff like savage is best left to players that WANT the challenge for its own sake and not to be made mandatory because it nets ridiculous levels of character power.
If you want that, WoW raiding should be right up your alley.

if the rewards from savage / extremes were valuable pieces of gear. i'd makethe effort to get them. but when the rewards are "next months junk" there's no point

That's a problematic you will find in virtually EVERY MMO that employs vertical progression.
New Raid tier -> old stuff rendered weak and worthless.