Clive's Paladin Compiilation

[Donjo]

Ha! I know exactly who you're quoting with those criticisms! That probably means I spend too much time here...

Anyways, the only beef I really have with Paladins is that the more situational/reactive utilities(the spells mostly) spend a lot of time unused when your party has a given fight well in hand. In progression, Paladin can certainly be the best thing ever (TM) , but it's just so odd to end up pressing fewer buttons once that progression ends.

Either way, I'm firmly of the opinion that the more boring someone believes Paladin to be the less they've ever considered trying the utility. There was a Vault run I did just after getting Clemency where I saved the party at every boss fight in ways only a Paladin can. I told the FC that this must be what it feels like to... Palawin :P

I didn't even think about this since I've always just thought about how HG can't stop magic...

Hm? HG can totally stop magic! My group's Akh Morn strategy was light cooldowns for 1, heavy cooldowns for 2, Holmgang+Cover for 3, HG for 4, and every cooldown+praying for 5(but we didn't usually reach this one hence using HG on 4 instead of here).

There are just some specific mechanics that say FU to the "invincible buttons" but they eat through all of them. The Ramuh EX Tank Swap mechanic is a good example of this.

[Malicewolf]

Hm? HG can totally stop magic! My group's Akh Morn strategy was light cooldowns for 1, heavy cooldowns for 2, Holmgang+Cover for 3, HG for 4, and every cooldown+praying for 5(but we didn't usually reach this one hence using HG on 4 instead of here).

There are just some specific mechanics that say FU to the "invincible buttons" but they eat through all of them. The Ramuh EX Tank Swap mechanic is a good example of this.

Sorry, maybe I should of reworded that, I just really meant that HG can't stop Nidhogg's Akh Morn. I tried to save a healer using cover HG and we both proceeded to take all dmg inflicted (and he died).

[Donjo]

Sorry, maybe I should of reworded that, I just really meant that HG can't stop Nidhogg's Akh Morn. I tried to save a healer using cover HG and we both proceeded to take all dmg inflicted (and he died).

Oh, my. I never thought to try that. Guess that's one of them things that ignores the invincible buttons. Oh noes!

Edit: Half the fun of Paladin Utility is figuring out where it doesn't work! [also from the book of "lolStatistics"]

[Lyth]

You can use Living Dead to survive damage from Akh Morn in Nidhogg Ex. The problem is that he will kill his target and then switch to another until he happens to target you, and you're generally one of the last ones to be targeted. I haven't tried doing this with Hallowed Ground, but I would be very surprised if Living Dead worked and Hallowed Ground did not.

[Ashur]

My problem with cover is that it doesn't cover magic damage, only redirects physical to you. I find the emergency times i want to use it, it usually ends up the person i cover dies anyway. Also the time i thought YES I CAN USE COVER TO SAVE THIS is in antitower, when i was free'd late and the boss started casting knockout on the dps, i used cover, sat next to them for a second, and when the knockout hit the dps it still killed them. So for me cover, even when i try to use it, hasnt been too useful. Not that i raid with pld so i dont use it for stack soaks

[Sarcatica]

I noticed you actually quoted my sayings. Take it with the salt of having good/great players playing with you, making those situational skills almost not used in the most optimal runs.

[Sarcatica]

Let me explain my stance for these situational skills. You can take those out and barely will have any impact to PLD's gameplay.

I am a PLD main since 2.0 release. Cleared most of the raids mostly earlier by 1 month and more before things got phased out. Cleared A4S and farmed it for 8 weeks before going to 3.2 patch. Top 8 PLD in FFlogs for Gordias Savage for DPS. Currently at P4 of A8S for MT/OT role (can do all tank jobs at higher level of play).



1. Protect. ONLY useful if your healers are busy with healing/dead (why are they even dead again?). Usually end up in a really bad shape. MOSTLY is a wipe. It had a good run in A4S since you help healers to save mana. Now? It's like you are banking on a very small chance for it to save your run, which again isn't ideal, you are better off redoing the fight than to try to recover and master mechanics. It's a huge pain to recover especially in A7S and A8S.

2. Stoneskin/Clemency. Other than downtimes usage where you aren't doing much, emergency use at best, complement mostly bad/okay healers, or just trying to learn mechanics. There is no content any healer job can't do. Period. You are better off getting another healers if you have to keep using Stoneskin/Clemency to yourself or your party members, especially on clearing attempts/or weekly clears.

3. Cover. This skill is very hard to utilize. You are absorbing someone's damage taken for yourself. Worse case scenario, it speeds up your death because healers are focusing heals on your co-tank OR you are taking additional burden of having yourself getting hit (you get damage from low defense party member) by bosses and mobs to your healers or dps alike. Best case scenario, you can OT or you just want to cheese physical damage. Only useful and impactful implementation was T13's Earthshaker and Holmgang's protection, and even then still very niche at best, even without the skill, you can still clear. Back then you could cheese Cover + HG. That was good.

4. Tempered Will. I am not too fond when people use skills to not do certain mechanics just because they can, mistakes alike. If you are good, you don't have to rely on such a limited use of a skill. All those knockbacks you mention can be mitigated if you do the mechanics well enough.

Note: You absolutely wouldn't want to use Tempered Will for T10's Wild Charge. Why? Try it without echo and low level sync, you will die from the hiss.

5. Silence. Please stop saying why you should be using this to absolutely silence something. You are missing 300potency attack. Get a bard/mch/nin to silence for you, big deal.

6. Pacify. Mostly work on mobs only. Just use it for more DPS. Fluffy damage too tough to handle? What high-end bosses can you pacify again? Use it for DPS. Period.

7. Stun. Please stop chaining stunning mobs unless if you need to. You only need 1 stun each to kill mobs in A7S. You will left with very low TP in long fights like A7S. Chaining stun is 99% not effective. You can delay your stun to hearts in A7S because it starts gaining speed after 10s, unless if you know your group can kill it fast then go ahead.

Good in A6S too to stun Hardmind and Hardhelm if you aren't using caster LB, for more effective DPS. Good in A8S if you are OT in P2 to stun orb.

Situational is called as such because out of so many contents, it's only useful for a few of them. Useful as it is but quite pointless for the most part. You don't compare those skills to skills like Rampart because it's universally good.

My 2cents.

[Malicewolf]

My 2cents.

There's no doubt these are situational movesets. I don't think the OP was ever trying to imply they are not. But they are undoubtly helpful in those situations (why he posted the instances each can be useful). The only thing I would really disagree with on the above is your tempered will point. You say you can mitigate if you do mechanics well enough... yes, in a sense true, but also lower's potential to DPS more when you could prevent the push back and get in an extra hit or two AND you can cover someone, which means the same for them. I always find it amusing when hardcore raiders say "don't bother with x because it hardly makes a difference" but then get their panties in a bunch if you mess up 1 move order and it'll drop your DPS from 711 to 706 (oh my). And just to clarify, not pointing this statement at you Sarcatica, it's a general thing I've noticed with hardcore raiders.

[Sarcatica]

I am mostly referring to the mechanics you do in Midas since it's the most updated raid. In 5-8s, there isn't a case where not using Tempered Will and Cover will make people lose DPS, except for Brute Justice's knockback. You want to get knocked back in a6s for mines for more dps as of now.

[Gaspies]

Great little guide, enjoyed reading it and the comments. I find it funny how much utility PLD has always had, but it always gets the rep for being the worst of the tanking classes. Oh well. Maybe you should mention divine veil in here, too. I use it frequently while raiding.