A question for the people who want faster exp.

[Bled]

Character progression in RPG's is a staple, but when that progression isn't immersive, rewarding, or engaging it's a problem. FFXIV is missing all three of those. If you sat down to play a single player RPG, and the game manual told you to progress that you must participate in redundant and uninspired tasks for a month, would you still play? I wouldn't. The RPG is missing from most MMO's including this one, and unfortunately the MMO part seems to be synonymous with time sinks to slow players down.

Leveling should be emergent. You shouldn't have to go out of your way to level in an RPG unless that's the way you enjoy playing the game.

o for the love of god please don't start throwing around the term emergent lol. Immersion threads have met the same wall of opposition as this, none of us have advocated a non emergent system or a non rewarding system for that matter.

And the "If you sat down to play a single player RPG, and the game manual told you to progress that you must participate in redundant and uninspired tasks for a month, would you still play? I wouldn't." look into Disgaea you wont like it, but thats pretty much what it is lol, and for the nich market its in it is very popular.

[Travesty]

o for the love of god please don't start throwing around the term emergent lol. Immersion threads have met the same wall of opposition as this, none of us have advocated a non emergent system or a non rewarding system for that matter.

He's not talking about immersion in the ethereal sense, which is what I think generally elicits that negative gut reaction you're talking about. He's talking about making it an activity you want to engage in or don't glaringly recognize you're engaging in, which is a valid point. I don't think most want a system where you do the same thing over and over.

[Bled]

He's not talking about immersion in the ethereal sense, which is what I think generally elicits that negative gut reaction you're talking about. He's talking about making it an activity you want to engage in or don't glaringly recognize you're engaging in.

"Character progression in RPG's is a staple, but when that progression isn't immersive" hes using it right there in its purest form, which is what the people flamed about. About two months ago when i brought making leveling more immersive up on a thread i had a large quantity of people coming in and rambling "immersion dosent exist", "immersion is subjective thus has no place in the game", and so on.

[Blarp]

"Character progression in RPG's is a staple, but when that progression isn't immersive" hes using it right there in its purest form, which is what the people flamed about. About two months ago when i brought making leveling more immersive up on a thread i had a large quantity of people coming in and rambling "immersion dosent exist", "immersion is subjective thus has no place in the game", and so on.

Why are you picking one word out of an entire post to argue? I'll edit out immersive and emergent if that will help you argue against the main point of the post.

[Bled]

Why are you picking one word out of an entire post to argue? I'll edit out immersive and emergent if that will help you argue against the main point of the post.

are you arguing to argue lol

I am not arguing against immersion, i was informing you of the flames i revived advocating immersive leveling.

[Blarp]

o for the love of god please don't start throwing around the term emergent lol. Immersion threads have met the same wall of opposition as this, none of us have advocated a non emergent system or a non rewarding system for that matter.

And the "If you sat down to play a single player RPG, and the game manual told you to progress that you must participate in redundant and uninspired tasks for a month, would you still play? I wouldn't." look into Disgaea you wont like it, but thats pretty much what it is lol, and for the nich market its in it is very popular.

What's wrong with emergent?

Freedom of choice should be something players advocate for. If there are players who enjoy grinding on mobs for months, then they should have that option, but too often people seem to think that there's only room for one way of progression in an MMO. Niche MMO's and games are great, but more and more these so called "AAA MMOs" are looking to appeal to wider audiences. If SE wants to bring in more players, then there should be options. If I want to grind, I can do that. If I want to solo my way to level cap in a reasonable amount of time, I should have that option. It would be a shame to alienate the segment of players who want a variety of ways to progress.

[Travesty]

What's wrong with emergent?

Freedom of choice should be something players advocate for. If there are players who enjoy grinding on mobs for months, then they should have that option, but too often people seem to think that there's only room for one way of progression in an MMO. Niche MMO's and games are great, but more and more these so called "AAA MMOs" are looking to appeal to wider audiences. If SE wants to bring in more players, then there should be options. If I want to grind, I can do that. If I want to solo my way to level cap in a reasonable amount of time, I should have that option. It would be a shame to alienate the segment of players who want a variety of ways to progress.

Well, the problem with that is, when the easier path exists, it's the one that becomes the default. Like I said earlier, if easy exists, very few people choose hard. It's the developer's job to make it so that kind of problem doesn't occur, and within this genre, removing one of the classic staples is not the way to do it.

[Blarp]

Well, the problem with that is, when the easier path exists, it's the one that becomes the default. Like I said earlier, if easy exists, very few people choose hard. It's the developer's job to make it so that kind of problem doesn't occur, and within this genre, removing one of the classic staples is not the way to do it.

I think that's a separate problem, and one that's not necessarily a rule. If I enjoy something that takes more effort to accomplish than something that is easier time to accomplish, but I don't have as much fun doing it, then I'll pick the more difficult path. I'm not advocating for the removal of grind. I think it's a necessary part of an MMO, but it shouldn't be the only option.

edit: Sorry Bled. Misunderstood.

[Travesty]

I think that's a separate problem, and one that's not necessarily a rule. If I enjoy something that takes more effort to accomplish than something that is easier time to accomplish, but I don't have as much fun doing it, then I'll pick the more difficult path. I'm not advocating for the removal of grind. I think it's a necessary part of an MMO, but it shouldn't be the only option.

edit: Sorry Bled. Misunderstood.

I agree, there should be varied options for leveling; grind, quests, dungeons, etc., but none of them should be a significant shortcut over all the others, which is what we seem to be presented with in this game now.

[Blarp]

I agree, there should be varied options for leveling; grind, quests, dungeons, etc., but none of them should be a significant shortcut over all the others, which is what we seem to be presented with in this game now.

Does that work in reverse as well? Should one option be vastly superior to the other?