A question for the people who want faster exp.

[Travesty]

In the last few minutes I've been reading the forum, I've seen a huge number of posts from people saying that getting large amounts of EXP very quickly is a good thing.

Comments like:
"killing the same mob over and over again is not fun"
"leveling shouldn't be hard, content should be"
"exp should be quick so people can do content with friends"
"there's no difficulty in leveling. It's just an arbitrary hurdle"

There are many other similar comments, but you get the idea.

Ignoring whether or not exp gain is now too fast, my immediate thinking about comments like this is; "then what the hell's the point?"

Honestly, if you view leveling as a mostly worthless activity that is boring, why not argue to just have an NPC in the game that you talk to and he gives you however much exp you want? What is the point of having leveling at all? Why are you even playing this type of game, beyond social interaction, if that is your viewpoint?

It seems to go completely against the most fundamental tenent of even the most basic RPG's. Building your character from level 1. Almost every RPG has this basic principle. Sure it's a "time sink," but every game is that.

I really just don't understand this mentality. I get not wanting an arduously long and grueling grind, but to argue for a nearly non-existent one? That simply doesn't make sense within this genre, in my eyes.


PS: I'd prefer this thread not fill up with personal attacks and such, but that probably won't happen, so carry-on.

[Bled]

In the last few minutes I've been reading the forum, I've seen a huge number of posts from people saying that getting large amounts of EXP very quickly is a good thing.

Comments like:
"killing the same mob over and over again is not fun"
"leveling shouldn't be hard, content should be"
"exp should be quick so people can do content with friends"
"there's no difficulty in leveling. It's just an arbitrary hurdle"

There are many other similar comments, but you get the idea.

Ignoring whether or not exp gain is now too fast, my immediate thinking about comments like this is; "then what the hell's the point?"

Honestly, if you view leveling as a mostly worthless activity that is boring, why not argue to just have an NPC in the game that you talk to and he gives you however much exp you want? What is the point of having leveling at all? Why are you even playing this type of game, beyond social interaction, if that is your viewpoint?

It seems to go completely against the most fundamental tenent of even the most basic RPG's. Building your character from level 1. Almost every RPG has this basic principle. Sure it's a "time sink," but every game is that.

I really just don't understand this mentality. I get not wanting an arduously long and grueling grind, but to argue for a nearly non-existent one? That simply doesn't make sense within this genre, in my eyes.


PS: I'd prefer this thread not fill up with personal attacks and such, but that probably won't happen, so carry-on.

Any thread following this logic is subject to being flamed GL kind sir.

I cant count how many ignore lists I'm pry on from the flame wars that start from advocating character progression in an RPG. Everyone masks their claims by saying "I'm grown up i have no time!" I say your in the wrong genre then... I however think it follows more along the lines of i want everything now.

[Travesty]

Any thread following this logic is subject to being flamed GL kind sir.

I cant count how many ignore lists I'm pry on from the flame wars that start from advocating character progression in an RPG.

Yeah, I know it's a can of worms, but I think the discussion is needed given the drastic speed of leveling people are reporting.

[Bled]

Yeah, I know it's a can of worms, but I think the discussion is needed given the drastic speed of leveling people are reporting.

people reported the same thing after 1.18, everyone just jumps to the forums to complain because they are a little lazy at finding a new efficient way to level.

[Xatsh]

The fact is people hate RPGs now. We are in the age of first person shooter and action games. The RPG game where character and story progression was 100% of the game is more or less done. It is considered oldschool, not fun, boring, old eastern gaming mentality.

It sucks because the RPG was my favorite genre, but it is more or less on life support due to the western game movement.

Honestly the mmorpg genre has what around 28million people... out of that 28million people probably about 10-15million people really hate rpgs, sorta blows my mind. I think that is why bliz is making a shooter mmo for their next big thing they realize most mmo players hate the games they are playing. Just really sucks for us who enjoy a good old fashion rpg.

People are cheering this massive sp on because they hate progression, they just want to be in the action.

[Bled]

The fact is people hate RPGs now. We are in the age of first person shooter and action games. The RPG game where character and story progression was 100% of the game is more or less done. It is considered oldschool, not fun, boring, old eastern gaming mentality.

It sucks because the RPG was my favorite genre, but it is more or less on life support due to the western game movement.

Honestly the mmorpg genre has what around 28million people... out of that 28million people probably about 10-15million people really hate rpgs, sorta blows my mind. I think that is why bliz is making a shooter mmo for their next big thing they realize most mmo players hate the games they are playing. Just really sucks for us who enjoy a good old fashion rpg.

People are cheering this massive sp on because they hate progression, they just want to be in the action.

We will always have Nippon Ichi at the very least ^^

[Travesty]

The fact is people hate RPGs now. We are in the age of first person shooter and action games. The RPG game where character and story progression was 100% of the game is more or less done. It is considered oldschool, not fun, boring, old eastern gaming mentality.

It sucks because the RPG was my favorite genre, but it is more or less on life support due to the western game movement.

Honestly the mmorpg genre has what around 28million people... out of that 28million people probably about 10-15million people really hate rpgs, sorta blows my mind. I think that is why bliz is making a shooter mmo for their next big thing they realize most mmo players hate the games they are playing. Just really sucks for us who enjoy a good old fashion rpg.

People are cheering this massive sp on because they hate progression, they just want to be in the action.

Yeah, this is pretty much my exact view on it as well. It's like half the people playing an MMO really want to be playing a straight hack and slash, and the genre is catering to that half.

[Sephrick]

The point people like myself are trying to make is that some leveling process is needed to teach the basics of how a class functions. But beyond that, there isn't much else leveling can teach. So dragging it out is sort of beating a dead horse. Advanced tactics come from advanced content.

XIV is doing things properly, but people just refuse to look at the bigger picture.

As of 1.19, XIV has, potentially, one of the most brutal grinds a person could ever choose to face. Materia.

And that's the great thing about XIV that folks are refusing to see. It's easy to get to 50 and have some fun with friends. But the person who wants and arduous grind and the end result to show for it can do so by leveling the crafts and gathering classes to handle materia, then grinding out hundreds of thousands of experience points in order to get the best materia, then repeat the process over and over until all their HQ gear is fitted with top-notch tier IV materia.

"Easy to start, difficult to master."

Allow me to say it with emphasis:

[SIZE="6"]"Easy to start, difficult to master."[/SIZE]

It's the unspoken motto of XIV that people need to get through their head. Sure we can be powerleveled to cap if that's what a player wants to do after they spend hard-earned dough to buy the game. The easy entry of XIV allows players to choose how they want to play.

I just don't get why it bothers people if a casual group wants to level to cap quick and go off and do things at their own pace. No one is stepping on anyone else's toes. There's still a mountain to climb that casual players likely never will touch. The min-maxing elitists can have the best gear and thus better characters while casuals get to just relax and play around. Everyone should be happy.

[viion]

The fact is people hate RPGs now. We are in the age of first person shooter and action games. The RPG game where character and story progression was 100% of the game is more or less done. It is considered oldschool, not fun, boring, old eastern gaming mentality.

Have you played a first person shooter recently? They all have levelling systems in them, probably more firce than most MMO's, take call of duty mw3, it has a level cap of 80, and you can hit that 15 times, so thats like 15 classes you can get to 80. You could just get to 80 and leave it there and you'd be good, limited in some way but good, you'd have less customization and freedom but its a choice. Its same and identical as MMO so your FPS comment is flawed.

Levelling is dumb, its there ONLY to give you something to do and make you not hit content so fast so that they can have time to make new content. It is also in P2P games a way to make you play longer so you pay more and they make more money out of you. Nothing else.

This is why a lot of single player games level you up through a story and its not mandatory because the content is there and the levelling up is completely optional and in some cases mainly just for the dedicated hardcore.

there are games, even mmos that cap you out right away and they work completely fine, they have content and hell, people even complete all that content and still play because they dont have to feel like they are working to play the game.

There is no-difference what so ever if you magically became 50 or if you hit your A button 5 million times to get there, absolute no difference. At the end your both 50 and dont need to level.

The materia argument, well its Optional, you can just buy it. The system is not forced on to you.

[Blarp]

Any thread following this logic is subject to being flamed GL kind sir.

I cant count how many ignore lists I'm pry on from the flame wars that start from advocating character progression in an RPG. Everyone masks their claims by saying "I'm grown up i have no time!" I say your in the wrong genre then... I however think it follows more along the lines of i want everything now.

Character progression in RPG's is a staple, but when that progression isn't immersive, rewarding, or engaging it's a problem. FFXIV is missing all three of those. If you sat down to play a single player RPG, and the game manual told you to progress that you must participate in redundant and uninspired tasks for a month, would you still play? I wouldn't. The RPG is missing from most MMO's including this one, and unfortunately the MMO part seems to be synonymous with time sinks to slow players down.

Leveling should be emergent. You shouldn't have to go out of your way to level in an RPG unless that's the way you enjoy playing the game.