WM - Why does it turn Bard's into DoT Casters?

[Neophyte]

Can't a BRD move like 1-2 seconds after every casts, except they have to use Ephymeral Arrow in the 2nd half of the GCD?

While BLM/SMN have something like 0,1-0,2s to move after GCD without dps-loss.

[Krindor]

snip

Yes the mechanics in early ARR had those issues and that could be seen that groups would more or less avoid melees but even then, it's a ranged fight but people preffered BRD over the other ranged.
The problem is that BRDs even if they get mechanics still have 100% uptime unless the boss is invulnerable, a melee has to disengage at some point in most fights while a BLM/SMN has to move which reduces DPS, while a BRD as long as it isn't a stop attacking mechanic can shoot non-stop, at a level of DPS close to casters it would mean that BRD overall is superior in a fight as they will have higher DPS.

[RiceisNice]

Yes the mechanics in early ARR had those issues and that could be seen that groups would more or less avoid melees but even then, it's a ranged fight but people preffered BRD over the other ranged.
The problem is that BRDs even if they get mechanics still have 100% uptime unless the boss is invulnerable, a melee has to disengage at some point in most fights while a BLM/SMN has to move which reduces DPS, while a BRD as long as it isn't a stop attacking mechanic can shoot non-stop, at a level of DPS close to casters it would mean that BRD overall is superior in a fight as they will have higher DPS.

Even though in those same fights, once people get familiar with it you'd see less BRDs topping the meters over BLMs or even melee. At this point you're taking BRD (or MCH) for the group compisition and what htey provide rather than the numbers.

This also comes at the cost of all the ranged jobs essentially being casters at this point. You have no physical ranged dps in the traditional sense and BRD's toolkit suffers for it since their pre-50 traits were not designed with cast times in mind, on top of homogenizing their gameplay with MCH since GB is functionally the same for their purposes. To me it's less about the mobility (even though it can be primarily the reason that some people do not want to play a caster to begin with) but the design of ranged dps in general compared to it's peers. As a former BRD current MCH main, it's just disappointing to see their gameplay be homogenized into a psuedo caster, as well as to each other since they have the same basework with few layers.

[Vifrague]

I adjusted to WM pretty easly mostly because I was never moving around like a hamster on caffeine, to me it (WM) really forced us to focus more on where our DPS was coming from our dots, obviously our dps is not on par with smn but if you mess up that dot recast or fumble on our rotation our DPS tanks our job just had the skill cap raised a bit all be it very sudden.

[Duelle]

The problem is that BRDs even if they get mechanics still have 100% uptime unless the boss is invulnerable

There are other ways to reduce ranged uptime on a boss. The easiest one to throw in would be adds; specifically adds that are out of melee range. Objects or obstacles that explode (thus requiring ranged DPS to deal with it) are another way of deal with things. If your boss has multiple target points, place one out of melee range so that the ranged have to focus on it. Avoidable attacks that deal splash damage that target only ranged DPS would be another way. A debuff that targets ranged DPS that makes them explode for massive damage if they attack. A debuff that targets ranged DPS that forces them to run away from the group (thus not attack the boss) also works.

[Krindor]

snip

Of course but these mechanics would hit casters as well so even then the damage output of a BRD would be higher than the other ranged.
This is probably the largest reason why there exists no pure DPS archer type class and instead BRD was given the support role with songs, it's a way to make the class lucrative while not making people stack multiples of it.
Though as RiceisNice said, the damage of a caster gets better the longer they have done the fight due to beng able to position themselves.

On the topic of WB, while I definitely see why people dislike it. The problem would be what should be implemented instead, that still forces someone to play the class clever and skullfully. If you look at every class atm they have something that requires handling something in a smart way. BLM has resource management and movement planning, SMN is micro managing pet(probably more but don't know the class), MNK has their stack mechinc other than being a melee that requires positionals, DRG has to handle Botd, NIN has their mudras. What BRDs have without WB is songs and dots, songs are easy to manage and every class has some type of dots so the class required something to make them difficult. Which SE thinking WB being the best option.

[RiceisNice]

On the topic of WB, while I definitely see why people dislike it. The problem would be what should be implemented instead, that still forces someone to play the class clever and skullfully. If you look at every class atm they have something that requires handling something in a smart way. BLM has resource management and movement planning

When we're looking at going into an expansion, that's the perfect time to plan something that would work. They could have done some form of TP management on BRD (or MCH for that matter via attachments), a stacking resource management gained through procs/crits in the form of song/verses, etc etc. What we got instead was them scrapping the intial idea of MCH (having multiple attachments and ammo being a hard requirement for skills) and giving MCH mechanics to BRD (the aforementioned gauss barrel). It really doesn't feel thought out or innovative when your post-50 abilities gives you cast times when everyone else gets these new abilties and timers, let alone something that they already gave to another job, the Machinist.

There's just absolutely no excuse to cut corners with design when you're going into an expansion; it makes for a very poor foundation to build upon.

[project359]

I'll be honest, I hated 3.0 Bard at first. I mained Bard from 2.0 and switched to BLM when 3.0 launched.

But after sticking with it and readjusting my play style, I absolutely love Bard now, to the point where I hate playing old content without WM.

On the plus side, WM has done away with those annoying Bards that used to run around in circles for absolutely no reason.

[GavynG]

I like Bard. I love Machinist. I don't care if we're more mobile or less mobile. And I believe even if bards and machinists could freely move and shoot, they'd get their shit together quickly as far as getting others hit with skills is concerned. People aren't THAT stupid late-game. Cough.

But...

I still hate how it feels to cast a shot. To have a skill interupted by damage. To have the tank move a boss behind me during a cast and interupt it that way. It just doesn't feel good. Still.

Honestly though, the idea of charging up a shot is interesting. but does it have to affect -everything-? On Machinist, it'd be nice if Hot Shot didn't have to be casted with Gauss Barrel Attached. Everything else, I'd be fine with. But Hot Shot is a boring "must always have up" move.

I got tired of removing Gauss to reapply Hot Shot then put the Gauss back on, so I just cast it now.

Always. Have. To cast. It. : |

[Ashur]

forgive me, im not a post-50 bard, but i dont feel as though WM exactly.. fits. in essence, it is a cast. but can anyone tell me the explanation for it being a cast? is it concentration, or charging aether, or a song that just works that way? I almost think it would make more sense if it were a bit more complicated..
For example, lets call it Pinpoint. explanation - the now experienced archer is aiming specifically for the enemy's weak points, when before they could aim and shoot quickly with less specific placement. each GCD shot has an aiming time of 1.5 seconds, but its more of a charge. the bard can move at any point during the charge and the global cooldown starts at activation. if the skill was charged .5 seconds before interruption, it does 10% more damage. 1 second charge is 20% more, and 1.5 is 30% more damage (okay the stance would have to increase oGCDs by a proportional amount, or adjust values, but anyway).

Now this means having to cancel your skill quickly is a dps loss and encourages people not to run around all the time, but its not the same as that pesky AoE or mechanic we couldnt avoid moving for cancelling a skill you already charged for a second and making you start the cast again. to me, thematically it also makes more sense, the minuet seems like it does what it does because.. it just does. extra damage for aiming at weak spots, coming from an experienced bard's knowledge, seems like a much more likely idea. But again thats just me and i'm no bard